Tacking under sail out of Chichester

[Sticky Fingers]

...
The HM attended and we had a chat. He was very unhappy about dinghy's using the anchorage as a race course but was unable to do more than issue a verbal warning and send a letter to the Sailing Club whos premises were the practice venue.

One day during a race a sailing dinghy will be sunk by a big motor boat if what I regularly witness is anything to go by. Race courses are often set to cross the clearly marked channel which at certain times gets really busy.

The duty of care bit comes in here I think.

The course setter might have some awkward questions asked at an inquest should the worst happen.......................................

Thta's my experience too. We tried to avoid the race days if we could.

 

[TernVI]

Not long before the 2012 Olympics First Mate and I were anchored at East Head. We were relaxing after dropping the disabled kids we had as crew on our boat during the annual 'Kids Out'. We were in a recognised anchorage and displaying the anchor ball clearly.

We had our anchor chain hit by a racing dinghy out practicing for the Olympic Qualifiers. The dinghy became upside down, the sail filled with tide causing our well dug in Delta to drag.

The male from the dinghy was gobby and obnoxious, the female embarrased.

The HM attended and we had a chat. He was very unhappy about dinghy's using the anchorage as a race course but was unable to do more than issue a verbal warning and send a letter to the Sailing Club whos premises were the practice venue.

One day during a race a sailing dinghy will be sunk by a big motor boat if what I regularly witness is anything to go by. Race courses are often set to cross the clearly marked channel which at certain times gets really busy.

The duty of care bit comes in here I think.

The course setter might have some awkward questions asked at an inquest should the worst happen.......................................

You clearly don't understand dinghy racing in Chi Harbour.
For dinghies to cut across the achorage, it's not necessary for the course set to go across the anchorage.
Typically there will be a long beat in the course.
Competitors will go to the edges if the tide is against them.
If there is a wind bend, it may favour going to one edge or the other.
Generally the flood tide is less at East Head.
Dinghies choose it as a route to a Mark over near HISC for much the same reason people choose to anchor there.

Short of setting out a complex and unenforceacle exclusion zone, there is nothing an RO can do to change this.

Anchored vessel are hazards which must be avoided.

 

[Refueler]

Not long before the 2012 Olympics First Mate and I were anchored at East Head. We were relaxing after dropping the disabled kids we had as crew on our boat during the annual 'Kids Out'. We were in a recognised anchorage and displaying the anchor ball clearly.

We had our anchor chain hit by a racing dinghy out practicing for the Olympic Qualifiers. The dinghy became upside down, the sail filled with tide causing our well dug in Delta to drag.

The male from the dinghy was gobby and obnoxious, the female embarrased.

The HM attended and we had a chat. He was very unhappy about dinghy's using the anchorage as a race course but was unable to do more than issue a verbal warning and send a letter to the Sailing Club whos premises were the practice venue.

One day during a race a sailing dinghy will be sunk by a big motor boat if what I regularly witness is anything to go by. Race courses are often set to cross the clearly marked channel which at certain times gets really busy.

The duty of care bit comes in here I think.

The course setter might have some awkward questions asked at an inquest should the worst happen.......................................

Before moving my boat out from UK .. I always intended to join in the Kids Day out sessions ... but sadly work always meant I was strictly limited on time back to UK.

I suppose with CV 19 - its all stopped now ..

 

[rotrax]

Anchored vessel are hazards which must be avoided.

It was clear that in this case the anchored boat was not avoided.

My point about the racing is clear.

If a course is set that crosses and recrosses the bouyed channel and at some time a dinghy is run down and sunk with loss of life at an inquest the coroner would be able to ask whoever set the course what 'Duty of care' he used. The answer would be enlightening.

The colregs would perhaps be of secondary importance at that moment.

As all of us know who use the Harbour at many tide times the channel is really busy with boats leaving and entering the harbour. When a race course is set across the channel I have had personal experience of close calls and seen a large motor yacht almost run down a dinghy under its forefoot.

It is waiting in the wings and might happen at any weekend.

 

[TernVI]

You don't seem to 'get' that dinghies often don't sail directly to the mark, they tend to have to tack this way and that, it's not like your bicycle racing.
Dinghies have always tacked across the channel and always will. The odd mishap will happen, but AFAIK there has never been a serious injury let alone a fatality from a dinghy colliding with a yacht in the harbour.
There is actually very little friction between the racers and the other boat owners.
Many of the people on yachts achored at East Head enjoy watching the racing.
Small boat racing has been in the harbour a lot longer than the marinas.
Maybe you are making an argument against expansion of marinas?

 

[Poignard]

I can't see the point of sailing out of Chichester Harbour at all.

Surely the whole idea of Solent sailing is to get to Cowes (or Yarmouth, if you're feeling really adventurous) as quickly as possible before all the berths get taken.

The only way to do this is to motor at full speed.

Possibly with your mainsail set so that you at least look like a sailer, even though you aren't.

 

[Stemar]

It was clear that in this case the anchored boat was not avoided.

My point about the racing is clear.

If a course is set that crosses and recrosses the bouyed channel and at some time a dinghy is run down and sunk with loss of life at an inquest the coroner would be able to ask whoever set the course what 'Duty of care' he used. The answer would be enlightening.

The colregs would perhaps be of secondary importance at that moment.

As all of us know who use the Harbour at many tide times the channel is really busy with boats leaving and entering the harbour. When a race course is set across the channel I have had personal experience of close calls and seen a large motor yacht almost run down a dinghy under its forefoot.

It is waiting in the wings and might happen at any weekend.

You don't seem to 'get' that dinghies often don't sail directly to the mark, they tend to have to tack this way and that, it's not like your bicycle racing.
Dinghies have always tacked across the channel and always will. The odd mishap will happen, but AFAIK there has never been a serious injury let alone a fatality from a dinghy colliding with a yacht in the harbour.
There is actually very little friction between the racers and the other boat owners.
Many of the people on yachts achored at East Head enjoy watching the racing.
Small boat racing has been in the harbour a lot longer than the marinas.
Maybe you are making an argument against expansion of marinas?

One issue with Chichester Harbour on a busy Sunday is that it's next to impossible to keep out of the way of the dinghies, so it seems to be generally accepted that the "right" thing to do is for a vessel under power to hold a steady course so the dinghies can dodge you. Is it written down somewherewhere? If not, and if something does go fatally wrong, what would the coroner have to say about that? It goes against colregs - unless the vessel under power can claim they're restricted by draft (Were you displaying the correct shapes?)

I'm not against the idea, it seems to be far and away the safest way to do it, but I do wonder sometimes. Usually around the time a dinghy goes across my bow a few feet away and I'm hoping he won't come to a sudden halt, 'cos I've got nowhere to go.

 

[TernVI]

Most of the people who get close to having any problems just need to slow down a bit and think further ahead.
A lot of the problem is possibly that the marina is a longway from the sea, people don't allow enough time or regard the harbour as the boring bit which they must get through ASAP.
Nothing is going to go 'fatally' wrong if you're only doing 5 knots.
Very few things ever actually go wrong.
There are more threads on here than near misses.
It's almost like a few posters on here account for 90% of the real life problems.

 

[rotrax]

So, the dinghies can do no wrong?

I have been hit by one while at anchor, displaying the anchor ball and in a recognised anchorage.

I have been involved in Motor Sport for 45 years and have had to give evidence at an inquest as a witness to a fatality.

The coroner has a duty and if doing that duty he finds shortcomings in a duty of care he or she will report it.

Setting a race course across a busy bouyed channel at the top of the tide when many vessels are using said channel might well be found in a coroners court to fall outside of the duty of care required for the safety of competitors.

A local Rugby Club was taken to task some years ago for failing in this area when running a mini rugby tournament. The clubs insurance paid a heavy price for something they had got away with for years and considered normal.

I sincerely hope sailing clubs in the harbour dont end up the same way.

By the way, my boat weighs 17 tons with full tanks and loaded. At 5 kts she dont stop quick, and going slower, she will not change direction quickly.

I have been shouted at by racers in the harbour when in the channel and while restricted in movement by other large and close by vessels. I would have loved to have not been in the way, but circumstances are circumstances and I was where I was. Not possible to move to Starboard, Sunseeker coming fast. Not possible to slow, Jeaneau yacht too close right behind. He was behind because he was dodging racing dinghies! To port, channel marker. Racing dinghies everywhere, from really good sailors going well and fast to others unsure of what to do, losing speed and rounding up in the busy channel. And I had incoming boats in the channel using the other side!

That is the reallity for many who regularly use the harbour at busy times.

 

[dom]

Setting a race course across a busy bouyed channel at the top of the tide when many vessels are using said channel might well be found in a coroners court to fall outside of the duty of care required for the safety of competitors.

A local Rugby Club was taken to task some years ago for failing in this area when running a mini rugby tournament. The clubs insurance paid a heavy price for something they had got away with for years and considered normal.

What, siting a rugby pitch across a buoyed channel? Yes, that was definitely daft! ?

 

[rotrax]

The area - as I am sure you ARE aware, was the area around an organisers duty of care to a competitor.

This is quite clearly defined in most cases.