Tacking under sail out of Chichester

[TernVI]

The entrance channel to Chichester is narrow and the deep channel is very close to shore; the channel is very busy ...

It's not actually all that busy very often.
You get a spurt of traffic leaving the marina at the same time when the lock opens, all motoring down in a line. Then they all come back together after Sunday lunch in Bembridge.

Probably if you tack down the harbour from the marina, you'd miss the 'school run'. But you'd be last into the pub at Brading.

Most of the day you can sit at HISC and not see ever so much traffic, even at weekends.

Some people do like to exaggerate the amount of conflict there is, I suspect they are the people not reading the situation ahead.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

It's not actually all that busy very often.
You get a spurt of traffic leaving the marina at the same time when the lock opens, all motoring down in a line. Then they all come back together after Sunday lunch in Bembridge.

Probably if you tack down the harbour from the marina, you'd miss the 'school run'. But you'd be last into the pub at Brading.

Most of the day you can sit at HISC and not see ever so much traffic, even at weekends.
...

Midweek that may be true but not my experience at weekends or bank holidays.

 

[bedouin]

I don't know where in the regulations it is stated that a sailing vessel has to adjust its course to give way to other craft. If there is such a statement, I would like to know. There may be local rules requiring boats to motor, as at Portsmouth, but otherwise I presume that it is the collision regulations that govern. I deliberately overstated my case in order to give support to the OP who felt himself harassed when going about his lawful business. It is a situation I often find myself in when under power and wishing to pass sailing dinghies, usually, in narrow channels. In these situations I am always aware that it is my obligation to keep clear.

By way of light relief, I recall a passage on the Broads when we had a 4-berth sailing boat and were tacking up Meadow Dyke, which is about as wide as two boat lengths. With the help of a quant pole and mop, we made good progress and built up a satisfying line of motor boats astern. Eventually, I took pity on them and nudged our boats bow into some reeds on the weather shore and waved them through. As one of them went past, they called out to us "What a pity. We thought you were doing so well up til then".

You are taking an over simplistic view of Colregs - you need to read them in more detail.

A number of aspects apply here. Firstly Rule 2 but more explicitly Rule 9.

Also under usual circumstances it is fine for the stand on vessel to tack and remain stand on but only when it is clear when the sailing vessel has to tack and as pointed out in this case it is far from clear.

 

[capnsensible]

Handling a yacht under sail in confined waters under sail seems to be a fading skill. The key is usually patience, a commodity in short supply these days.

 

[matt1]

Couple of years ago I got diesel bug and had to short tack up the Hamble and onto my pile mooring off Universal. Fortunately no problem as I often sailed onto and off the mooring (then boat was only 31’). Conditions were quite testy with 20+knots and gusty in river but tbh the boat was a delight so it wasn’t challenging. But my did I get some abuse and told to “use my engine” - this was one evening mid week. Was going to sail my now 41’ up the river Saturday but a plethora of paddleboarders and inflatable kayaks milling about in the channel off Warsash plus a 25’ tacking further up the river I decided better of it. I guess my point it’s just a judgement call on the day. But it’s a skill we shouldn’t surrender!

 

[Wansworth]

Chichester midweek acceptable time to tack out of the harbour but weekends when there is a huge amount of activity especially in the summer there is no real need to exhibit your sailing skills Cali g unneeded delay to other boaters

 

[capnsensible]

Indeed to practice a skill that comes in very handy, it's best to pick quieter moments. I often use early evening when most people are already alongside to have a pleasant couple of hours coaching people in sailing slowly under control and especially on and off alongside berths.

Have only sailed onto pile moorings a couple of times....great challenge!

 

[Wansworth]

Indeed to practice a skill that comes in very handy, it's best to pick quieter moments. I often use early evening when most people are already alongside to have a pleasant couple of hours coaching people in sailing slowly under control and especially on and off alongside berths.

Have only sailed onto pile moorings a couple of times....great challenge!

Agree,spent many a satisfying afternoon perfecting pile morning mooring singlehanded..........when I was much younger?

 

[Stemar]

Agree,spent many a satisfying afternoon perfecting pile morning mooring singlehanded..........when I was much younger?

The trouble with most moorings on the south coast is that they're so crowded with expensive things to hit if you get it wrong.

 

[Wansworth]

It was a long time ago,midweek and blissfully ignorant of insurance policy’s ?

 

[JumbleDuck]

Am I wrong to expect vessels under motor to give way to me in these conditions? What about when making a tack? I was astonished how many boats (sail and motor) didn't seem to anticipate that I was going to need to tack and did not adjust their course or speed to make allowances for this.

It is well-established in law that for a sailing vessel, "standing on" includes tacking up a narrow channel. It's often misunderstood to mean "maintain speed and course" but it actually means "keep on doing what you were doing". You are not obliged to run aground in order to stand on.

 

[RJJ]

It is well-established in law that for a sailing vessel, "standing on" includes tacking up a narrow channel. It's often misunderstood to mean "maintain speed and course" but it actually means "keep on doing what you were doing". You are not obliged to run aground in order to stand on.

I would be interested to see that law, please. As in, I strongly question whether it exists but glad to learn if I am mistaken! Thank you.

I don't know where in the regulations it is stated that a sailing vessel has to adjust its course to give way to other craft

That's not the point. Those of us from a racing background are closely familiar with the burdens placed on a right-of-way vessel (because, in racing, there is such a thing); namely to avoid collisions and also to avoid alteration of course to which the give-way vessel must immediately respond (without anticipation). And that's when every vessel in the fleet can be assumed to be paying "racing" attention and of reasonable competence (that assumption being part of the rules via various ISAF cases).

This discussion is commensurate, only we are talking about mostly cruising boats, mix of power and sail, some under sail and others not, many of them constrained by draft and all trying to keep clear of each other, and skippered to varying levels of expertise which none of us should take for granted.

The point is not only that the give-way vessel CAN keep clear of you IF concentrating on you and understanding your intentions, by anticipating your moves. Nor is it that he/she may consider you to be a prat, which is their privilege regardless of COLREGS ?. The point is their job is to look out for all and every vessel on the water; if they have to take hard avoiding action to avoid you mid-tack then the risk may be to the vessel beyond or behind them that you hadn't even seen (you were concentrating on your tacking).

Would you set a bunch of yachts racing up that channel against the tide? I suggest not. And the racing rules give far more explicit guidance about right-of-way transitions than the COLREGS. Which takes me back to where I started: tacking out of that place on a busy day places unreasonable burden on those around you. If your engine is bust, fine, but if it's a matter of your enjoyment, sorry but please don't do it.

 

[Fantasie 19]

In a busy confined harbour entrance channel i think it would be fair to all to motor sail with the flow . If not many boats around then it's good to use skills in a confined area.

Wise words... I've done it on a quiet mid-week day in the sunshine, but wouldn't consider it at the weekend with the usual numbers of boats coming in and out..

 

[Lucky Duck]

I would be interested to see that law, please. As in, I strongly question whether it exists but glad to learn if I am mistaken! Thank you.



That's not the point. Those of us from a racing background are closely familiar with the burdens placed on a right-of-way vessel (because, in racing, there is such a thing); namely to avoid collisions and also to avoid alteration of course to which the give-way vessel must immediately respond (without anticipation). And that's when every vessel in the fleet can be assumed to be paying "racing" attention and of reasonable competence (that assumption being part of the rules via various ISAF cases).

This discussion is commensurate, only we are talking about mostly cruising boats, mix of power and sail, some under sail and others not, many of them constrained by draft and all trying to keep clear of each other, and skippered to varying levels of expertise which none of us should take for granted.

The point is not only that the give-way vessel CAN keep clear of you IF concentrating on you and understanding your intentions, by anticipating your moves. Nor is it that he/she may consider you to be a prat, which is their privilege regardless of COLREGS ?. The point is their job is to look out for all and every vessel on the water; if they have to take hard avoiding action to avoid you mid-tack then the risk may be to the vessel beyond or behind them that you hadn't even seen (you were concentrating on your tacking).

Would you set a bunch of yachts racing up that channel against the tide? I suggest not. And the racing rules give far more explicit guidance about right-of-way transitions than the COLREGS. Which takes me back to where I started: tacking out of that place on a busy day places unreasonable burden on those around you. If your engine is bust, fine, but if it's a matter of your enjoyment, sorry but please don't do it.

From post #125 the somewhat lengthy thread I referred to earlier

I am told the standard authority is Lord Alberstone in Windsor-Roanoke, 1908

The case is then discussed at some detail in following contributions.

 

[johnalison]

Wise words... I've done it on a quiet mid-week day in the sunshine, but wouldn't consider it at the weekend with the usual numbers of boats coming in and out..

I don't think that I would choose to either, but the OP did, as he was entitled to. If anyone thinks that overtaking a taking boat is difficult, they should either take some instruction or consider doing something they are better suited to. Our Broads cruisers were governed to 4 mph and we managed. With my current 6-ish kn, and even more for some, it is not something that ever gives me any concern. You just mosey up behind the other boat, speed up when he starts to go about, and slip through past his stern. Rocket science in action.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I would be interested to see that law, please. As in, I strongly question whether it exists but glad to learn if I am mistaken! Thank you.

It's case law, and I am afraid I don't have the details. There was a very interesting discussion of it on the mobo forum a few years back when one of the regulars there complained that a yacht had tacked up a channel in front of him and has his backside politely handed to him on a plate by other moboers. As I recall, one of the cases cited was a ship which slowed down to take on a pilot and was hit by another; since it was perfectly obvious that she would be slowing down, that counted as standing on. As well as that, though, case law was cited which said that if you are tacking up a channel, "standing on" means "continuing to tack up the channel".

 

[Babylon]

I've often tacked into and/or out of places such as Newtown Creek, the Beaulieu, etc with narrow entrance channels (albeit a lot shorter than the Chichester one).

It is huge fun doing it singlehanded, especially with two headsails to tack, and a great skill to practice generally (as is anchoring and breaking out under sail, FOB u/sail, coming alongside u/sail, etc), but I'd be more considerate of others if it was anything but almost completely quiet.

If there was only one other vessel to consider, then it would be reasonable to expect them to be completely ready to give way should a close-quarters situation look like its developing, but in a steady stream of vessels proceeding in both directions under power (and with many sailors - let alone motorboaters! - blissfully unaware of what's involved in short-tacking in a narrow channel) I wouldn't push my luck.

 

[Lucky Duck]

It's case law, and I am afraid I don't have the details. There was a very interesting discussion of it on the mobo forum a few years back when one of the regulars there complained that a yacht had tacked up a channel in front of him and has his backside politely handed to him on a plate by other moboers. As I recall, one of the cases cited was a ship which slowed down to take on a pilot and was hit by another; since it was perfectly obvious that she would be slowing down, that counted as standing on. As well as that, though, case law was cited which said that if you are tacking up a channel, "standing on" means "continuing to tack up the channel".

Posts #19 and #34

 

[RJJ]

If anyone thinks that overtaking a taking boat is difficult, they should either take some instruction or consider doing something they are better suited to.

But that's not all that's required. We are talking about overtaking a tacking boat when there is significant other traffic around.

From my team racing days, I'd confidently say my skills are as good as any cruiser at anticipating a tack, keeping an eye out for multiple boats at close quarters, managing time/distance etc. Maybe I could do it. But if I wanted to, I'd go racing. There's nothing in the law or the RYA syllabus that requires anyone to have developed those skills which are seldom required by cruisers; it's not reasonable or considerate to assume that other sailors have done so. Responses here indicate a majority against tacking up on a busy day, which to me is sufficient to confirm it's not reasonable and may not be safe to do so.

 

[bedouin]

There are particular issues with the entrance to Chi that makes if different to many other examples and that is that the extent of the channel on the Eastern side of the entrance is not well defined meaning it is very hard to predict when a yacht approaching the eastern edge of the channel is going to tack.