Swing keeler under 20ft

[Jim@sea]

I bought a 21ft American Hunter Legend, Swing Keel, on a Trailer. The only reason I went to see it was that it was on a lake 30 miles from where I lived and it came with the mooring included, (and it was quite cheap)
It was brilliant, in very good condition, Itt was a 1997 and the 6 hp 2 stroke Tohatsu Outboard was original.
In fact itt was cheaper than a similar year Drascombe Lugger would have been, (I had a Drascombe Lugger in 2005 so I know the boats.

In fact when I say it was brilliant I know my way around boats as in 1979 I had a New Moody 30, 1982 Nauticat 33, Princess 33. Guy Couch 660. Bayliner Speedboat. etc,
When I had the Nauticat 33 it was only 9 years old and already had been repaired for Osmosis, so when in 2001 I went to see the 24 year old Hunter Legend I expected to see Osmosis but there was none. Fortunately the hull was original and inpainted and just needed a clean. The American Trailer was really sturdy. The tyres needed changing as they were the original ones.
Certainly well worth a look.

 

[TSB240]

Premium price but worth looking at.
Viko S 21 for sale UK, Viko boats for sale, Viko used boat sales, Viko Sailing Yachts For Sale 2016 Viko Yachts 21 - Apollo Duck

 

[greeny]

jeanneau sun 2000 - Google Suche

 

[dancrane]

I'm in a constant mental quest for a hypothetical boat that costs little to moor and takes near zero maintainance. Spending my entire day yesterday grubbing around between between bilge keels has awakened that process.

I always read your posts with interest because I remember you have a Corribee, a design I still covet...

...so if you're considering something that's easier to live with, perhaps I ought to be looking at that, instead!

It strikes me that a fully retracting ballast keel which leaves the lines of the hull unobstructed, would allow the boat to be easily 'bagged' on a marina berth, enabling seawater and everything living in it, to be flushed out and (also mud if the berth is a drying one) effectively excluded from contact with the hull. Having spent one arduous pre-season week scrubbing, priming and antifouling a triple keeled Achilles 24, I'd like to try a different way in future.

I've observed small lifting keelers like the Hunter Medina being stored ashore, somewhat elevated so the lowered keel could be treated. Strangely, the Medina I'm thinking of usually has her keel raised in spite of being on forward and aft supports nowhere near the keel slot, which can't do her structure much good. But it (and the Jaguar 21) remain very appealing.

The Swift 18's swing-keel is certainly clever (kicking up in the event of impacts with the bottom), but I don't think I could live with the whole length of the cabin seating footwell being divided by the keel case.

 

[Tranona]

What's the term for lifting keels where the entire pivot is 'outside' the boat? (Which I guess makes it hard to sit flat when dried out but makes the whole thing more reliable and maintainable.)

Also, in general terms does routine maintainance require you to have trestles or somesuch to allow you to maintain the keel? Seems to me that a significant advantage of lifting keel is that you don't need a cradle to strore the boat ashore but if you still need that to maintain it that advantage is kind of nullified.

I'm in a constant mental quest for a hypothetical boat that costs little to moor and takes near zero maintainance. Spending my entire day yesterday grubbing around between between bilge keels has awakened that process. I guess the real answer to that quest is 'charterboat'.

Terminology is a slippery thing. What you describe in your first sentence is literally a "lifting keel" - but so is a boat where the keel disappears into a case inside the hull. It is just that the designer of the first type was trying to follow a fixed keel concept with outside ballast but with less draft. Conceptually this type of boat is following the ""traditional" sailing keelboat idea, whereas the latter type is derived from essentially a dinghy scaled up - at least in the sizes we are talking about here.

There are so many variations on the theme there is no simple definitive definition of types and they all have their pros and cons. However none of them meet your "ideal" - there is no such thing as a near no maintenance boat. They all require maintenance, but some may be easier than others depending on your circumstances and the resources available. You are right the only non maintenance sailing is using somebody elses boat.

 

[ProDave]

My first boat was an 18 ft lifting keel boat where the keel lifted up into a keel box leaving essentially a flat bottomed hull. My thoughts on that:

Pro's

Shallow draft, we could be the first out of the harbour on a rising tide (drying harbour) and last in on a falling tide, if feeling brave.

It sat low on the trailer but since we only recovered from the slipway once (and vowed never again) that was not much of an advantage.

If you go exploring somewhere shallow and you touch the bottom, you could wind the keel up a bit and retreat to deeper water.

Con's:

Cabin divided by permanent keel box.

Flat bottom meant you had to be SURE what you were drying out on. Our harbour with soft mud was perfect, but I would not want to dry out on an unknown beach that might have stones on it. (if i were going to do that a bilge keeler would be better, at least the hull would not touch the stones)

Annual maintenance of the keel and it's lifting mechanism. Minimum of keel box cover off, inspect and grease winch mechanism and the stainless steel lifting rope. Maintenance of the keel was harder. I modified the trailer so the keel could be partly lowered for cleaning and anti fouling.

Constant worry that if the lifting mechanism failed, the weighty (ballasted) keel might drop and the force of it hitting the bottom of the boat might separate the hull - keel box joint and sink the boat.

The keel could sometimes jam in the harbour if stones got in. Could be resolved by taking the top off the keel box inspecting and cleaning.

If left on a mooring with keel down, barnacles could make it hard / impossible to raise the keel.


We only bought that boat because we were looking for a small starter boat and that was for sale locally.

We now have a bilge keel boat, perfectly suited to the drying harbour and none of those complications or worry.

 

[DownWest]

Not an answer to all the comments. But, The Kelt 6.20 I have here is not a bad cheap solution. It has a shallow ballast keel with the plate inside it. Internal acommodation is open plan for four. Not bad, with two quarter berths and the big V up front. There is an intrusion from the the bit of the hull that houses the lifting gear for the plate, but that is incorperated in the galley work top. Loo is under a panel between the the bits of the forward berth. Headroom is limited, but ok of one accepts that standing headroom is not possible. Rig is a bit 70s, big genoa with high aspect small main. The spare sail I aquired will be recut to a slight overlap.
It was unusual in it's early days as the only cat 2 boat at its size. i.e. semi high seas. 'B' in the RCD now.
It weighs about a ton, so, plus a trailer (and some gear) still within the the limit for a biggish car.
Quite a keen following on web sites.

 

[Goldie]

Hunter Liberty or Hunter Minstrel?

 

[DownWest]

Hunter Liberty or Hunter Minstrel?

Always admired those, but are there many for sale?

 

[Gixer]

I’ve said it before on the forum and I’ll say it again.

Westerly Nimrod

 

[dancrane]

I was thinking the same, and I nearly suggested it...but didn't the OP say he has a Drascombe Coaster with a cabin that's too small?

Seems to me it's unlikely to be any smaller than the Nimrod's cabin.

Otherwise the Nimrod might be ideal, except that they're very rarely for sale. I know, I've been looking out for one for years.

 

[Gixer]

Ahh, I missed that post, just read it.

Ok, accommodation would be similar but you’ll definitely get to your destination faster

My old Nimrod has come back to my club. Every time I see it I want it back!

 

[Mark-1]

I was thinking the same, and I nearly suggested it...but didn't the OP say he has a Drascombe Coaster with a cabin that's too small?

Seems to me it's unlikely to be any smaller than the Nimrod's cabin.

Otherwise the Nimrod might be ideal, except that they're very rarely for sale. I know, I've been looking out for one for years.

There's a Nimrod that lives near my house and it coincidentally spends it's summers near my old marina berth. Cracking looking boats and I suspect slightly more cabin space than a Drascombe.

 

[Mark-1]

.

 

[ProDave]

Always admired those, but are there many for sale?

There is one for sale up here, berthed next to us. but £12K ruled it out for us to even look at.

Oh and it's 23ft, not really a "trailer sailor" unless you have a big tow car.

 

[dancrane]

Flat bottom meant you had to be SURE what you were drying out on. Our harbour with soft mud was perfect, but I would not want to dry out on an unknown beach that might have stones on it. (if i were going to do that a bilge keeler would be better, at least the hull would not touch the stones).

Given the fairly slight weight of lifting keelers up to around 21ft, I've wondered whether a couple of pairs of largest-size semi-inflated fenders (that can be deflated for stowage) could be tied end-to-end and roped athwartship beneath the boat, one pair beneath the cockpit and the other slightly forward of the keel box, so that the hull needn't rest on an irregular beach.

 

[dancrane]

Cracking looking boats and I suspect slightly more cabin space than a Drascombe.

I don't say the Nimrod's cabin isn't marginally bigger...though it's sure to look bigger on a smaller hull.

Those proportions are about right - the Coaster is 4ft longer.

 

[steve yates]

I always read your posts with interest because I remember you have a Corribee, a design I still covet...

...so if you're considering something that's easier to live with, perhaps I ought to be looking at that, instead!

It strikes me that a fully retracting ballast keel which leaves the lines of the hull unobstructed, would allow the boat to be easily 'bagged' on a marina berth, enabling seawater and everything living in it, to be flushed out and (also mud if the berth is a drying one) effectively excluded from contact with the hull. Having spent one arduous pre-season week scrubbing, priming and antifouling a triple keeled Achilles 24, I'd like to try a different way in future.

I've observed small lifting keelers like the Hunter Medina being stored ashore, somewhat elevated so the lowered keel could be treated. Strangely, the Medina I'm thinking of usually has her keel raised in spite of being on forward and aft supports nowhere near the keel slot, which can't do her structure much good. But it (and the Jaguar 21) remain very appealing.

The Swift 18's swing-keel is certainly clever (kicking up in the event of impacts with the bottom), but I don't think I could live with the whole length of the cabin seating footwell being divided by the keel case.

The bradwell 18 has the same swing keel idea, that you can use as a depthsounder, but it impacts the cabin not one jot.

 

[suffolklass]

We had a Manta 19, nice wee boat. 750kg so easily towable.

 

[nevis768]

Hi

What swing keel cruisers are there under 20ft? Something trailerable to new cruising grounds but would be happy on a mooring for the summer.

Kind Regards

Check your gross train weight for towing, remember it includes everything in/on your trailer and car, including passengers.