SW HF and SSB Radio

[G12]

You can't do it online because the exam is practical and you need to learn how to operate the radio prior to taking it.
You might be able to do some of the theory online first though as you used to be able to with Bob.

 

[Turnbuckle]

I have an SSB on board as it came with the boat. I would like to be able to use it but do not have the LRC. I assume that I have to have the LRC as the boat is UK registered and I am UK resident? (The US requirements are much less arduous)

Bob Smith no longer runs a course. Having just done YM Ocean Theory online, is there an online LRC course I might do?
Thanks

You don't say what model SSB you have, but you might find an Amateur setup better and more use than what is now becoming rather old technology. Ocean comms is largely driven by commercial shipping, and this is now almost universally Satellite based. Some use MF/HF for backup or local use (fishing vessels keeping their old tech), but for Yachts wanting both Weather and Chats then see the posts re fldigi etc. You will presumably already have insulated backstay and proper effective RF grounding on board, so switching to a much more useful (in my view) Amateur Rig (I use a Yaesu FT818 for both receive and transmit - it gives me MF, HF, VHF and UHF and they are available second hand for around £450-£500) may well give you reception for wefax, better contacts, be better fitted for the kind of use Yachtsmen need, and cost you less in both learning and expense in the long run.

There are plenty of Amateur licence trainers online for almost free, and the exam can be taken online. You would need a full licence to operate at sea - the three Amateur levels are Foundation, Intermediate, and Full and these need to be taken consecutively - but there's a move afoot to add a 'direct to Full Licence' which would suite people with both electronics and operating experience. The Foundation is easy. As is Intermediate for anyone with some knowledge of electronics. And the training will help you in other ways by giving you a good grounding in electronics and rf theory. For online training, have a look at Training or https://www.essexham.co.uk/amateur-radio-training .

If you're contemplating long ocean passages, then frankly I'd invest in a Satellite 'phone for emergencies. That, and VHF Channel 16 (though no longer fully monitored by commercial shipping) along with an Amateur rig for chat with other yachts will, in my experience, give you everything you might need.

 

[dolabriform]

You don't say what model SSB you have, but you might find an Amateur setup better and more use than what is now becoming rather old technology. Ocean comms is largely driven by commercial shipping, and this is now almost universally Satellite based. Some use MF/HF for backup or local use (fishing vessels keeping their old tech), but for Yachts wanting both Weather and Chats then see the posts re fldigi etc. You will presumably already have insulated backstay and proper effective RF grounding on board, so switching to a much more useful (in my view) Amateur Rig (I use a Yaesu FT818 for both receive and transmit - it gives me MF, HF, VHF and UHF and they are available second hand for around £450-£500) may well give you reception for wefax, better contacts, be better fitted for the kind of use Yachtsmen need, and cost you less in both learning and expense in the long run.

There are plenty of Amateur licence trainers online for almost free, and the exam can be taken online. You would need a full licence to operate at sea - the three Amateur levels are Foundation, Intermediate, and Full and these need to be taken consecutively - but there's a move afoot to add a 'direct to Full Licence' which would suite people with both electronics and operating experience. The Foundation is easy. As is Intermediate for anyone with some knowledge of electronics. And the training will help you in other ways by giving you a good grounding in electronics and rf theory. For online training, have a look at Training or Essex Ham’s Training Material | Essex Ham .

If you're contemplating long ocean passages, then frankly I'd invest in a Satellite 'phone for emergencies. That, and VHF Channel 16 (though no longer fully monitored by commercial shipping) along with an Amateur rig for chat with other yachts will, in my experience, give you everything you might need.

You have to get a full license to be able to operate at sea, which takes a lot of time to study and obtain. Not really a practical option for most Yachties.

I've got a foundation license and SRC, and from what I can see there's not much more one would need to know in order to be able to operate at sea. The amateur radio license is aimed at people interested in experimenting with radio as a hobby, whilst most yachties want to use it purely as a form of communication.

 

[Turnbuckle]

You have to get a full license to be able to operate at sea, which takes a lot of time to study and obtain. Not really a practical option for most Yachties.

I've got a foundation license and SRC, and from what I can see there's not much more one would need to know in order to be able to operate at sea. The amateur radio license is aimed at people interested in experimenting with radio as a hobby, whilst most yachties want to use it purely as a form of communication.

Whilst I agree with you that the requirement for a Full Amateur licence for Mobile Marine operation might seem like overkill these days, it isn't correct to say that the amateur radio licence is aimed only at people interested in experimenting with radio as a hobby. Very many Radio Amateurs, including long-distance yachtsmen, carry Amateur Radio, and take the time to gain licence qualifications, in order to use it primarily as a means of communication rather than experimentation.

 

[zoidberg]

I started down this route with Essex Ham’s Training Material | Essex Ham and confirm they're excellent. I also joined a local 'ham' club, intending to go the mileage, but soon found that my interest in 'comms with people at sea and/or me at sea' didn't fit their niche interests. Then along came Covid.....

 

[dolabriform]

I started down this route with Essex Ham’s Training Material | Essex Ham and confirm they're excellent. I also joined a local 'ham' club, intending to go the mileage, but soon found that my interest in 'comms with people at sea and/or me at sea' didn't fit their niche interests. Then along came Covid.....

I also did my foundation with Essex HAM and agree with you.

 

[dolabriform]

Whilst I agree with you that the requirement for a Full Amateur licence for Mobile Marine operation might seem like overkill these days, it isn't correct to say that the amateur radio licence is aimed only at people interested in experimenting with radio as a hobby. Very many Radio Amateurs, including long-distance yachtsmen, carry Amateur Radio, and take the time to gain licence qualifications, in order to use it primarily as a means of communication rather than experimentation.

Sorry if my comment was one dimensional, I appreciate that not everyone is into experimenting with the electronics, I was trying to highlight as Zoidberg has that the aims of the majority of HAM clubs are vastly different from someone just wanting to communicate at sea.

 

[Slowboat35]

As part of even private pilot training one has to take a Flight Radiotelephony Operator's Licence (FRTOL) which allows you to use any aircraft comms suite. The theoretical side is very basic and the practical syllabus is all to do with operating short range aircraft VHF radios and correct voice procedure.
However it also licences you to use an HF set if fitted with only the briefest notion of path propagation and no practical training at all. Aviation frequencies are of course allocated for the purpose but the equipment can access the entire HF band as far as I recall. Airborne HF is not much used outside niche operators these days as sat comms of one sort or another (not necessarily voice) cover oceanic airline routes and sadly most of the once very useful HF radio links for a phonepatch service like Portishead Radio are long gone. Still, it was vital in the days before mobile phones but progress caught up. Except, it seems , in Ham land.
It does strike me that the requirements for a Ham licence are ludicrously excessive, particularly in the requirements for considerable skill in circuit design and building (!) which is surely totally unnecesary for operating what is after all merely a 2 way radio. You don't have to demonstrate designing and building an engine to get a diving licence!
Quite what harm can be done by someone who can't design, build or modify an RF oscillator circuit is beyond me, it looks to very much like a bunch of stuck-in-the-mud old farts jealously guarding their arcane secret magical skills from the great unwashed like a bunch of paranoid latter-day wizards.
One can see how this might have arisen a hundred years ago when one had to build a set to get on air and spurious RF signals wiping out the aether from badly designed circuitry would have been seen as a problem, when spying and the military used them widely and even the telephone was seen as potentially subversive, when the GPO ruled electrical comms with an iron fist and licences were required for anything involving the grubby public even recieving such contentious stuff. But now when sets are factory bought just what is the point of making mere comms considerably less accessible than full-bore rifle? What, exactly, do they think they're protecting?

 

[zoidberg]

What, exactly, do they think they're protecting?

Agree. Once upon a time, I was 'licensed' by HerMaj to operate airborne comms in the VHF, UHF and HF ranges.... and did so for years as part of my day-job. I also used RF devices, most days, considerably more esoteric than a 5m or 20m band ham radio. I don't recollect OFCOM's shadowy radio-police force ever knocking on my door in the middle of the night....

I would have liked to get involved in 'nets' for offshore yotties - at either end of the exchange - but it's just too darn difficult.

 

[GHA]

What, exactly, do they think they're protecting?

Use of the frequencies which many huge corporation would dearly love to get their hands on.
If you can't pass the foundation or intermediate exams then you really shouldn't be let loose with anything other than a radio all set up for you with channels. Hams are left alone by the licensing authorities as they run the bands well without the need of any outside influence and don't make a mess of the frequencies despite being allowed to use pretty much whatever they want to transmit. Much of tthe courses cover the legal side so everyone knows exactly what they can and can't do legally and it works well. The frequencies are self policed and exist pretty much without outside interference ().

 

[Skylark]

........I don't recollect OFCOM's shadowy radio-police force ever knocking on my door in the middle of the night....

I moved to Italy in the mid 80s and took some amateur radio gear with me. The paperwork was in order and was cleared by customs. However, as the equipment arrived at the house it was accompanied by 3 armed police. They seemed to enjoy strutting their stuff and terrifying my wife in the process. ?

 

[ip485]

As part of even private pilot training one has to take a Flight Radiotelephony Operator's Licence (FRTOL) which allows you to use any aircraft comms suite. The theoretical side is very basic and the practical syllabus is all to do with operating short range aircraft VHF radios and correct voice procedure.
However it also licences you to use an HF set if fitted with only the briefest notion of path propagation and no practical training at all. Aviation frequencies are of course allocated for the purpose but the equipment can access the entire HF band as far as I recall. Airborne HF is not much used outside niche operators these days as sat comms of one sort or another (not necessarily voice) cover oceanic airline routes and sadly most of the once very useful HF radio links for a phonepatch service like Portishead Radio are long gone. Still, it was vital in the days before mobile phones but progress caught up. Except, it seems , in Ham land.
It does strike me that the requirements for a Ham licence are ludicrously excessive, particularly in the requirements for considerable skill in circuit design and building (!) which is surely totally unnecesary for operating what is after all merely a 2 way radio. You don't have to demonstrate designing and building an engine to get a diving licence!
Quite what harm can be done by someone who can't design, build or modify an RF oscillator circuit is beyond me, it looks to very much like a bunch of stuck-in-the-mud old farts jealously guarding their arcane secret magical skills from the great unwashed like a bunch of paranoid latter-day wizards.
One can see how this might have arisen a hundred years ago when one had to build a set to get on air and spurious RF signals wiping out the aether from badly designed circuitry would have been seen as a problem, when spying and the military used them widely and even the telephone was seen as potentially subversive, when the GPO ruled electrical comms with an iron fist and licences were required for anything involving the grubby public even recieving such contentious stuff. But now when sets are factory bought just what is the point of making mere comms considerably less accessible than full-bore rifle? What, exactly, do they think they're protecting?

Are you referring to EASA - I dont think under EASA regs it does entitle you to use HF. I agree HF is little used. In GA the niche appolication is any trans oceanic crossing where it is a basic requirement.

The VHF licence is also not transferable to marine frequencies, which is all rather silly, although to be fair the protocols are different. Almost no one who is a pilot will not have a license because it is an automatic part of the vanilla PPL (albiet you are entitled to fly no radio), but I bet a significant number of operators on the marine VHF frequency are unlicensed. The aviation HF licence also gives you no ham priviliges.

(PS I think the current position is the HF licence in aviation effectively comes with an ATPL or IR, but not a vanilla PPL, happy to be corrected as it is a while since I did mine).

I agree with the rest of your discussion.

Hams (although most would not agree) are obsessed with an exam based regime to protect their hobby. Numbers are considerably down in the UK and I beleive the trend will continue. With modern sets it is ludicrous to require such extensive technical knowledge for all. I accept that for those whose interest extend beyond the use of a commercial set the additional technical knowledge is important. For the typical marine band user it is totally ridiculous, and as it is HF is dead in Europe. In the Windies there are plenty of people with sets that are not licenensed on the net, with which I am completely fine.

 

[zoidberg]

In the Windies there are plenty of people with sets that are not licenensed on the net, with which I am completely fine.

I would dearly like to find myself 500-1000nm out from landfall in the Windies, and be able to 'chat' with one or two of those 'plenty of people' to inquire where the best parties are likely to be, when I arrive....

 

[ip485]

I would dearly like to find myself 500-1000nm out from landfall in the Windies, and be able to 'chat' with one or two of those 'plenty of people' to inquire where the best parties are likely to be, when I arrive....

Cheers. See you in the Irie bar.

 

[GHA]

For the typical marine band user it is totally ridiculous,

What is ham 'marine band'? AFAIK there is no such thing. Or do you mean marine SSB? Which is completely unrelated to ham, totally different.

 

[Roberto]

I moved to Italy in the mid 80s and took some amateur radio gear with me. The paperwork was in order and was cleared by customs. However, as the equipment arrived at the house it was accompanied by 3 armed police. They seemed to enjoy strutting their stuff and terrifying my wife in the process. ?

That was Italy in the mid-80s, anti-terrorism laws, mobile ham not allowed, if your car ended with and empty tank you had to push it to the filling station as no jerricans allowed etc. Same thing probably as walking in Belfast with a Molotov bottle in your hands.

 

[ip485]

gha - sorry an unrestricted or restricted ssb on a yacht

 

[GHA]

gha - sorry an unrestricted or restricted ssb on a yacht

Sorry that's still unfamiliar terminology... I assume you mean marine single ssb radio or amatuer ham radio. Very different beasts. Marine ssb you can't really do much damage and don't need to know much, bit like marine vhf.
Marine SSB, Ham Radio, or Both? - Practical Sailor
A common source of confusion as there's little traffic or need in Europe.

 

[ip485]

Sorry that's still unfamiliar terminology... I assume you mean marine single ssb radio or amatuer ham radio. Very different beasts. Marine ssb you can't really do much damage and don't need to know much, bit like marine vhf.

As you point out the former cant do much harm, but actually this is a 3 day license. Many marine SSB radios have been opened up so they become ham radios. The frequencies are then not restricted. Strangely enough it is the same box, same knobs, can be connected to the same PC in the same way if the frequency selection isnt intuitive, hence my point. At its most basic, it is a radio, nothing more and I am cynical amount those that attempt to make it much more complicated than it needs be.

 

[dolabriform]

Sorry that's still unfamiliar terminology... I assume you mean marine single ssb radio or amatuer ham radio. Very different beasts. Marine ssb you can't really do much damage and don't need to know much, bit like marine vhf.
Marine SSB, Ham Radio, or Both? - Practical Sailor
A common source of confusion as there's little traffic or need in Europe.

I guess the issue is the requirement to have a full license to transmit at Sea. If it was possible for a foundation or intermediate to be able to transmit at sea with the restriction of commercial equipment and commercial installation only, then I'm sure there would be much more take up.