Surveyor osmosis Issue

[Leaforge]

Hello
In process of buying a 45ft semi D boat - it has been surveyed however report has not yet reached me. One of the comments is that the vessel has '10% osmosis around the keel area'. Broker says that is within acceptable limits for a 1999 boat and should be good for 10years.

• is he correct
• how much of a problem is 10% osmosis
• may keep the boat 2-3 years before upgrade - will my sale of the boat be compromised
• approx cost to repair

any help would be greatly appreciated.
thanks in advance.
Roy

 

[kashurst]

its not unusual to see some osmosis on older boats.
repair cost depends on the size of the blisters. if its just small ones (size of a finger nail) you can fix it yourself by grinding back the blisters and washing it with fresh water. leave the boat out the water over the winter (indoors if possible) to let it all dry out. Wait until you get a warm day in the spring and fill in the holes with an epoxy filler, sand flush, bobs your uncle. cost tens of pounds and some effort.

Or: full gelcoat strip, hot vacuum dryout - costs thousands.

depending on the boat, overall condition etc it would be better to establish if a simple local area fix is sufficient.

 

[sailorman]

Hello
In process of buying a 45ft semi D boat - it has been surveyed however report has not yet reached me. One of the comments is that the vessel has '10% osmosis around the keel area'. Broker says that is within acceptable limits for a 1999 boat and should be good for 10years.

• is he correct
• how much of a problem is 10% osmosis
• may keep the boat 2-3 years before upgrade - will my sale of the boat be compromised
• approx cost to repair

any help would be greatly appreciated.
thanks in advance.
Roy

why not phone the surveyor

 

[BartW]

10% of osmosis isn't a real problem now nor within 10y
so the broker is right in that aspect,

BUT

if your plan is now to upgrade and sell that boat within a few years, I would not buy that one,
just because of the "reputation" and "devaluation" people have about osmosis,
so very difficult to sell again.
Unless you can deduct the Osmosis repair cost from your bottom buying price now.

all imho

 

[Firefly625]

why not phone the surveyor

I do tend to agree with sailorman, but certainly the dreaded word of Osmosis can be off putting, IMO certainly enough to warrant buyer putting right or paying for that to be put right (by way of a reduction in purchase price)... disregarding the ease or not of putting osmosis right just the fact it has got it would put a lot of people off that boat now and in the future..


edited bit ... well if Bart had posted his response just a few seconds earlier I could have just done a +1... but interesting to see we are on the same wavelength

 

[Richard10002]

10% of osmosis isn't a real problem now nor within 10y
so the broker is right in that aspect,

BUT

if your plan is now to upgrade and sell that boat within a few years, I would not buy that one,
just because of the "reputation" and "devaluation" people have about osmosis,
so very difficult to sell again.
Unless you can deduct the Osmosis repair cost from your bottom buying price now.

all imho

+1

The broker is probably correct, but what he isn't saying is that it's difficult to sell a boat with osmosis, so you would have to get it repaired. Deduct the cost of the repair, or walk away.... Unless you are happy to buy it given what you now know.

 

[oldgit]

Hello
In process of buying a 45ft semi D boat - it has been surveyed however report has not yet reached me. One of the comments is that the vessel has '10% osmosis around the keel area'. Broker says that is within acceptable limits for a 1999 boat and should be good for 10years.

• is he correct
• how much of a problem is 10% osmosis
• may keep the boat 2-3 years before upgrade - will my sale of the boat be compromised
• approx cost to repair

any help would be greatly appreciated.
thanks in advance.
Roy

IMHO depends entirely of value of boat.
If its a Broom/Fairline/Princess worth £350K or something then yes you care about the osmosis and need to either walk on by or adjust price to reflect the fact. .
It its a 45 ft ancient (but classy) classic worth £25k then you really really dont care about getting it sorted,just enjoy it and then buy the next one,which will also probably have some osmosis as well.

 

[Leaforge]

The boat is not in the UK, my initial thought was to canvas some opinion from you sage folks before speaking to the broker/surveyor (just got the email) armed with some info. My slant was similar to that voiced earlier that osmosis is a no go area for some people and therfore maybe not a sound proposition.

However, if purchased and repaired well would the next survey pick up that osmosis was repaired and therefore the boat is a problem? moreover if it was repaired properly would it be detected at all?
Thanks
Roy

 

[oldgit]

Any decent surveyor will pick up instantly on repaired blisters,some boats were notorius for the problem.
Look here.
www.yachtsurvey.com




....Enjoy.

 

[minkysailing]

Hello
In process of buying a 45ft semi D boat - it has been surveyed however report has not yet reached me. One of the comments is that the vessel has '10% osmosis around the keel area'. Broker says that is within acceptable limits for a 1999 boat and should be good for 10years.

• is he correct
• how much of a problem is 10% osmosis
• may keep the boat 2-3 years before upgrade - will my sale of the boat be compromised
• approx cost to repair

any help would be greatly appreciated.
thanks in advance.
Roy

Roy,

I would suggest that you wait for your surveyor's report and then seek his advice on the best course of action moving forward (this is what you are paying him for). 10% osmosis (I assume he is referring to area) is significant and if it is visible in 10% of the keel it is likely that the other 90% with time will start to blister also. I would not be guided by the Brokers comments for obvious reasons. The key here will be the moisture readings across the hull. This will indicate if the hull is in need of treatment or more localised.

 

[Bandit]

Firstly talk to the surveyor is he talking about 10% as being the moisture content of the hull or blister percent coverage?

Older boats especially some of the better built semi displacment boats of that age will show some signs. Often if you pierce a blister with a sharp knife or screwdriver and you get the liquid on your finger it will smell like chip shop vinegar.

If it is not bad I would not necesarily be put off by it perhaps negotiate a better price nor would I rush to get it fixed.

I would probably get the boat monitor the situation for a few seasons and see if it changed much. Wash out the bilges and keep them dry and get to know the boat.

It also depends on the value of the purchase.

To my knowledge a boat has never sunk due to osmosis and a surveyor told me the worst osmosis he had ever seen was in a jacuzzi.

I was told by an old surveyor / consultant for west systems if you decide to do a full job, to monitor the moisture level, remove all antifoul and the gelcoat with a gel plane, have the bottom of the boat blasted with a coarse abrasive to crack open any blisters and voids and then to grind out any obvios problems. Hot water pressure wash the hull many times over a couple of weeks to rinse out the fluid. Start this in say late september and leave the boat outside in the wind to dry , rain does not matter and monitor the moisture level with a moisture meter and when it drops to a suitable level and when it is warm enough ( spring) start filling any holes with an approved filler and then build up coats of epoxy to the required level. Do not rush it, there are differing views about hot vac pads.
with international gelshield or similar.
If it were my boat I probably would not treat it, I have seen many boats have either a quick bodge or a full monty that in my mind dont need it and sometimes get it again later.

 

[dragoon]

To my knowledge a boat has never sunk due to osmosis and a surveyor told me the worst osmosis he had ever seen was in a jacuzzi.

Absolutely true - our jacuzzi has terrible osmosis - we're talking blisters an inch across, with a horrible dark colour to them.

No jacuzzi has ever sunk due to osmosis though

 

[Allan]

I have a slightly different view to others. When I bought my boat, 5 years ago, I knew it had osmosis. I got an estimate for a full strip etc. and reduced my offer by that amount. I then sailed the boat without getting the work done. The osmosis has not changed. If I had the work done when I first bought the boat I would be £6000 worse off, lost months of sailing and the warranty would run out this year.
It seems to me that more and more people are quoting the "boats don't sink because of osmosis". Slowly osmosis is becoming less and less of an issue as long as the purchase price is correct.
Allan

 

[Leaforge]

Is there a rule of thumb for stripping and re-gelcoating a hull - per meter for instance?
Approx cost for a proper job?
Is it a task that could be undertaken by a reasonably savvy amateur?

I am not too bothered about the osmosis but must consider that the next purchaser may be, in any event the osmosis must render the boat more difficult to sell, would that be a reasonable assumption?

Many thanks again in advance.

 

[dragoon]

. Slowly osmosis is becoming less and less of an issue as long as the purchase price is correct.
Allan

Absolutely true. It seems everything I've ever owned and made from GRP seems to have some osmosis - that includes sailing boats, dinghys, motor boats, a jacuzzi and I've even seen it in a shower tray!

I think as someone stated earlier, if it's a 350,000 pound newish gin palace and you've paid top dollar for it, it may be of importance. If we're talking something further into its depreciation, and the price is right, there's little consequence.

A bit like installing solar panels, the price being right may balance with how long you plan to keep it - if you want a boat for 2 seasons before upgrading, then it may slow down your subsequent sale - if you plan to keep for 10 years plus, there's little bearing - a boat that doesn't have it now will possibly have it by then, and a boat that's had corrective work may see it return. It's made of GRP and lives in the water - it's only a matter of time....

Cheers,
Paul

 

[dragoon]

Is there a rule of thumb for stripping and re-gelcoating a hull - per meter for instance?
Approx cost for a proper job?
Is it a task that could be undertaken by a reasonably savvy amateur?

I am not too bothered about the osmosis but must consider that the next purchaser may be, in any event the osmosis must render the boat more difficult to sell, would that be a reasonable assumption?

Many thanks again in advance.

I think a hull strip and re-gel is too much for an amateur, unless you have lots of time, patience, money, and somewhere to store the boat indoors for several months. If you want an approximate cost, the best is to ask a specialist in osmosis repairs for a quote.

Personally osmosis has never bothered me. I've bought boats with it, and without it. Either way it's shown up eventually. I've also heard of plenty of horror stories where it's been repaired at vast expense and it just returns.

Having osmosis can make a boat more difficult to sell, but it depends on the person and the price. When I sold our Sabre 27, the surveyor raised the fact it had osmosis - I assumed it had as I'd seen blisters through the antifoul. The buyer wanted the boat, and I offered a discount of 50% of the cost of repair - at the time a quote was 3,000 (this was over 10 years ago). So in the end he got cheaper, and I bought it without survey for around the same money, so we were all happy.

The current boat had an absolutely dry hull when I bought it and the surveyor described it as being as "smooth as a babies bottom". It had been stood on the hard for 2 years and had dried out. I saw an earlier (by several years) survey where it had higher moisture readings. It now has a few blisters. If I leave it on the hard for a week or two, they decrease. I suspect if I left it in a yard for a couple of years again, they would almost disappear, but I don't plan to.


Cheers,
Paul

 

[Cashbuyer]

"I am not too bothered about the osmosis but must consider that the next purchaser may be, in any event the osmosis must render the boat more difficult to sell, would that be a reasonable assumption?[/QUOTE]

Hundreds of boats on the Thames/freshwater rivers have osmosis to a lesser or higher degree. Freemans seem to be very prone but this doesn't stop them selling. Many buyers like you are aware and not particularly bothered, now that time has passed and proved that all these boats are still floating/very useable. If, when you come to sell, a buyer plays hardball and this becomes a purchase issue then I would suggest that they are using this reason just to get a cheap boat. If the boat is well maintained and well presented etc then you shouldn't have a problem selling. If I was buying this boat I'd be more concerned with maintenance records, paperwork and making sure everything worked before worrying about the osmosis.

If the buyer asks who repaired the osmosis and you have let them know it was a DIY job then I suggest this could put some buyers off, more than having the osmosis anyway. If fixed professionally, you'll never see the return on your outlay and you lose at least six months or more use of the boat

 

[Leaforge]

Hello All
For reasons best not mentioned a moisture test was not done on the boat. On the bright side osmosis was 5mm blisters either side of the keel, the owner has agreed to pay for the repair, overseen and inspected by surveyor. Surveyor thinks problem is minor.

I have asked for a moisture test to be carried out after the gel-coat has been removed. What figures should i be looking for in terms of good, bad or indifferent moisture? Plus anything else you sage chaps may like to add.

Regards
Roy

 

[capsco]

You really need to talk to your surveyor, he is the only one who knows all the relevant facts and conditions at the time.

I would expect him to take relative readings, of affected areas and maybe topsides.

 

[longjohnsilver]

You really need to talk to your surveyor, he is the only one who knows all the relevant facts and conditions at the time.

I would expect him to take relative readings, of affected areas and maybe topsides.

Yes that's the only way. Different moisture meters give different readings so all depends on which one he's using, and also which setting. So many different variables.