Survey/sea trial

[Martxer]

This week we have just had a pre purchase survey done on a 40’ sports cruiser and while nothing much was found it’s raised some serious doubt.
The boat is fitted with d4 300s and was 400 rpm down and about 5 knots.
Trim tabs not working and exhaust bellows need changing.

The doubt comes from the boat having engines and drives serviced in March along with anodes and anti foul now being a novice and current boat has outboards I had a Google of exhaust bellows and results came up as they need changing every 2. Years, if so would that not be done when the drives were serviced?
The broker put the loss of speed/revs down to weed but is it underpowered with the 300 s

Am I right to have doubt or am I being over concerned?

 

[julians]

Can't answer your question about whether the boat is underpowered, but regarding the exhaust bellows being replaced, you kind of answered that yourself, they need doing every 2 years if servicing by the book,but some people (probably quite a lot of people) let them go for longer before being changed, looks like your potential boat is one of those. I wonder what else has not been done?

I always changed my bellows every two years,and serviced the engine and drives by the book,I had no major issues.

A bit of growth on the hull and props could easily cause the reduction in speed and revs you saw,so that on its own wouldn't concern me.

 

[Bigplumbs]

I obviously cant speak for all but I am sure as stated above many many people do not replace the exhaust bellows every 2 years

 

[colhel]

If the trim tabs aren't working could they be causing the loss of speed?

 

[julians]

If the trim tabs aren't working could they be causing the loss of speed?

If they're stuck down they could be,but if stuck up (and therefore out of the way of the water flow) unlikely.

 

[Martxer]

The tabs were stuck up. When the boat was lifted the outdrives and bathing platform lifting/lowering mechanism had a bit of growth on them .

 

[jrudge]

To me this is the vendors problem. The boat needs lifting / cleaning off and go back in the water. It should reach full rpm and not overheat.

the only reason I would accept for it not is if it has non standard stuff on it. In my case I have a 300kg Williams rib and a 400kg gyro. I have no idea what impact this will have as I have not tried it when clean but I would expect
something.

The lack of bellows does suggest poor maintenance. I had an out drive boat and the bellows were changed without fail due to the fear of sinking if not.
At the end of the day is it priced as turnkey or as a big rough around the edges.

 

[Portofino]

Can you ( via broker ) access the service history?
I kept a comprehensive file and passed it on to the broker who was Sunseeker , my old Porto 35 never left the dealer network.
Full SH inc as said by others genuine VP parts by the book .Sold it quick as a consequence.

The rpm thingy .
Ideally should reach rated WOT + a few single digit % say 3 % to account for weed .
As j rudge said it’s the sellers reasonably to get a diver etc if it’s fouled .

Tabs
Well that’s under capitalisation ….what else has been deferred ?

Having preached all this from the holier than thou pulpit it’s apparently a sellers market .Blink , wait a week and you will loose it .

 

[Martxer]

Can you ( via broker ) access the service history?
I kept a comprehensive file and passed it on to the broker who was Sunseeker , my old Porto 35 never left the dealer network.
Full SH inc as said by others genuine VP parts by the book .Sold it quick as a consequence.

The rpm thingy .
Ideally should reach rated WOT + a few single digit % say 3 % to account for weed .
As j rudge said it’s the sellers reasonably to get a diver etc if it’s fouled .

Tabs
Well that’s under capitalisation ….what else has been deferred ?

Having preached all this from the holier than thou pulpit it’s apparently a sellers market .Blink , wait a week and you will loose it .

Re service history the engines and drives come with an extended warranty till 2025 , to keep the warranty they have to be dealer serviced which they have.
The boat is a 2020 boat I have no reason to believe there to be a lack of maintenance from the vendor.
I had the engines and drives inspected by the company that did the service and will warranty the engines and it just doesn’t add up to me that the bellows require attention.
The broker is waiting for a call back when the survey is back, I have not made them aware of anything yet as I wanted to see if I am right to be in some doubt.

 

[simonfraser]

if you purchase, it will soon be 2025 when all the issues will be your problem
what is the engine access like ???

 

[Portofino]

Re service history the engines and drives come with an extended warranty till 2025 , to keep the warranty they have to be dealer serviced which they have.
The boat is a 2020 boat I have no reason to believe there to be a lack of maintenance from the vendor.
I had the engines and drives inspected by the company that did the service and will warranty the engines and it just doesn’t add up to me that the bellows require attention.
The broker is waiting for a call back when the survey is back, I have not made them aware of anything yet as I wanted to see if I am right to be in some doubt.

Wish you inc this info in your opening post !

All the more reason to get Volvo out or request the seller commissions a diver .

Ask why it won’t reach rated WOT and keep temps assume it ever reaches it ?

 

[Martxer]

Wish you inc this info in your opening post !

Does it make a difference If I did?
my concern was the bellows replacement not coinciding with stern drive service.I left out that information as I didn’t feel it relevant to the situation.
I don’t feel that the engines being warranted answeres the question as to why the bellows need replacing5 months after outdrive service.I have no experience of owning an outdrives boat and am happy to stand corrected. Every day is a school day and I am here to learn I just did not think things added up but maths is not my strong point .

 

[Portofino]

Send the broker this .
Understanding Low Power Troubleshooting

Ask him which reason is it ?
When it’s fixed call you .

 

[Portofino]

Does it make a difference If I did?
my concern was the bellows replacement not coinciding with stern drive service.I left out that information as I didn’t feel it relevant to the situation.
I don’t feel that the engines being warranted answeres the question as to why the bellows need replacing5 months after outdrive service.I have no experience of owning an outdrives boat and am happy to stand corrected. Every day is a school day and I am here to learn I just did not think things added up but maths is not my strong point .

There should be a invoice for genuine VP bellows this year for a 2020 boat .
I would have thought to validate any warranty ,How ever they are a consumerble item like tyres or brakes on a car could go , split , tear at any time like a tyre bulge from curbing so I would have thought out side warranty and the damage like rusty universal joints as a result of a ripped bellows also outside warranty .May be your surveyor guy spotted a leak / tear , like a vehicle inspector picking up a tyre bulge on 5 months old 2000 miles tyres “ But they are new hardly worn “ i here you cry .
It still needs a new tyre .

 

[Portofino]

Ok I am not having a pop at Martxer .
When buying , more so the newer ask 2 questions “ Does everything work ? “
Second “ does it reach rated rpm at WOT and not overheat ?

Turning up funding a lift + survey to find the trim tabs are US , it’s 400 rpm off rated WOT is just not on .
Wastes everyone’s time . As per link above post #13 it could be a sinister fuelling issue , it could be semi clogged filters .But this boats a 2020 so unlikely decades of disturbed crud in the bottom of the tank !

So I flew to Naples on a day trip from stansted to view the current boat which was 12 y old then .
I d established a good rapport with the broker , who sent more pics and answered Yes emphatically to the two killer Q s .
Otherwise it would have been a waste of time , energy and £ jumping on the sodding plane .
I was on the helm as soon as we left Naples for Capri and asked “ can I wot it “ held it at 50 rpm over rated WOT for 15 mins studying the gauges etc .
Offered to pay for fuel = declined .
Boat had a lad on it and well prepared .I took a mate for a second pair of eyes.The ER had no weeps / leaks etc .Everything worked
We agreed a deal .They were keen to sell it .

Minor details like the anchor chain was rusty ( already seen a pic of the locker ) they agreed to replace and few other bits and bobs like the passerelle rope etc .

Still reaches a little over rated rpm @ WOT , hold its temps , and everything still works 8 yrs later .It’s well maintained.

Its susceptibility to prop fouling is like all Med boats and it’s €200 for the marina diver to clean up the stern gear …..should I ever sell it and the broker / guardian end up taking out a serious punter .You can’t sell em with fouled stern gear imho .

But I am not sure what the U.K. culture is ?

 

[Martxer]

There should be a invoice for genuine VP bellows this year for a 2020 boat .
I would have thought to validate any warranty ,How ever they are a consumerble item like tyres or brakes on a car could go , split , tear at any time like a tyre bulge from curbing so I would have thought out side warranty and the damage like rusty universal joints as a result of a ripped bellows also outside warranty .May be your surveyor guy spotted a leak / tear , like a vehicle inspector picking up a tyre bulge on 5 months old 2000 miles tyres “ But they are new hardly worn “ i here you cry .
It still needs a new tyre .

In the words of the surveyor the bellows are showing signs of salt water permeation .
I agree that they are a consumable manufacturer recommends replacing every 2 years so my logic says replace at outdrives service. Outdrives serviced 5 months ago and bellows showing signs of being shot at hence my apprehension.
Am I right to be apprehensive or do I have it all wrong?

 

[jrudge]

It is an almost new boat. It should make full rpm and the fellows should not be knackered. Ask for receipt of service and get the vendor to clean it and re trial.

 

[Portofino]

In the words of the surveyor the bellows are showing signs of salt water permeation .
I agree that they are a consumable manufacturer recommends replacing every 2 years so my logic says replace at outdrives service. Outdrives serviced 5 months ago and bellows showing signs of being shot at hence my apprehension.
Am I right to be apprehensive or do I have it all wrong?

Depends wether they were replaced 5 months ago ? As said it should be in the thin 2 y history file .
But like tyres you could drive off from quick fit with a new set , go for a mot next week to find ones bulged past the safety limit because some ones kerbed it .

I would be more apprehensive about not reaching WOT rated rpm and the US trim tabs .

The bellows thingy is 3 rd behind those two ,

 

[petem]

An outdrive service doesn't automatically include a bellows change.

My outdrives are serviced every year (inspection and oil change) with bellows changed every other year.

 

[Martxer]

Depends wether they were replaced 5 months ago ? As said it should be in the thin 2 y history file .
But like tyres you could drive off from quick fit with a new set , go for a mot next week to find ones bulged past the safety limit because some ones kerbed it .

I would be more apprehensive about not reaching WOT rated rpm and the US trim tabs .

The bellows thingy is 3 rd behind those two ,

Your right not reaching wot and trim tabs not working are priority it was number 3 on the list that did not compute to me . 1&2 can and need to be rectified but can be xplained .
It was the bellows not adding up or making sense to me was a bit of a red flag