Survey/sea trial

[Portofino]

The Sunseeker guys in France told me when I was selling mine , the client expects to recover his survey + lift fees 100% .Any snagging on top is negotiable.
So for a boat that size we ( his suggestion) was add €2500 on to asking .
Which we did and sure enough , sorry can’t remember exactly what , but we agreed a €2000 off .

Ended back at the price I thought it should go for which was the median of the 5 /7 for sale in Med at the time .

Just a shared really .

Later found out within a year the new owner , replaced the turbos , elbows .Re carpeted it and replaced the 11 y old anchor chain .Fresh bellows . New bow sunpad .Went to Germany and was under Sunseeker Germanys maintenance.
As soon as he sailed away , actually trucked it N , he started the € throwing.

 

[jointventureII]

If it’s the same one we had a look around , I could tell it was a good one , well maintained.Subject to sea trail the triple MTUs reaching rated rpm ( with clean sterngear ) I would if in that market have bought it assuming it was ball park price wise .
Perhaps hired MTU guys to officially ok the motors . But even without them the necessary data to analyse the motors is all available at the helm screen anyhow .
Fuel burn , EGTs , load + much more etc .
The rest is just boats ongoing expense , I pads , carpets , kitchen appliances, covers , state of anchor chain or what ever etc .
They are not new . They should have a thick service history file .
Finding a fire extinguisher hidden in a cabin wardrobe 1month out of date is not a deal breaker in my book .

I am looking at the bigger picture as soon as you sail off you will be throwing €€€ at it .€€€ proportionate to size .

This is the other one, the SL, with a much bigger market (apparently), MTU report came back spotless, literally. This has standard shafts but I went for a dive before hand to check props were clean (propspeed was applied so yes)

We're assuming the bloke's wife was giving him grief so he just needed an excuse to walk away (at which point I'd much rather hear "wife doesn't like it, sorry chaps")

But yes I do wonder about some of these surveyors

 

[jointventureII]

If someone who can afford a 37m toy doesn't question the sanity of a surveyor who goes as far as putting such BS in writing, I wonder what such buyer does for a living.
If I should bet, drug dealer is the most sensible option I'd put my money on!

I am still amazed, almost daily, how perfectly astute, intelligent, groundbreaking people that have made money to be in a position to buy something like this (and 37m is not big by SY standards).....completely lose their minds when it comes to boats.

 

[Time Out]

This is the other one, the SL, with a much bigger market (apparently), MTU report came back spotless, literally. This has standard shafts but I went for a dive before hand to check props were clean (propspeed was applied so yes)

We're assuming the bloke's wife was giving him grief so he just needed an excuse to walk away (at which point I'd much rather hear "wife doesn't like it, sorry chaps")

But yes I do wonder about some of these surveyors

The MYBA contract allows them to almost do just that…..

 

[jrudge]

It is not just boats. I am selling a house. The survey has so many inaccuracies it is laughable. It recommends loads of reports. Two have been done in the last 2 days I have no idea how many more are planned.

 

[Seastoke]

Did you pay for lift and survey

 

[Portofino]

Just an update, I decided to reject the boat based on the fact that it failed the sea trail. I tried to overcome the fact that I thought the boat may be under powered but I could not.
Thanks everyone for your comments as they have helped massively .
After looking into things further I found out an engine had been replaced and the information deliberately with held, after all this the seller / broker wants to withhold the deposit paid.

I thought you were accepting the 3480 rpm in a “lumpy sea “ on the second sea trail ?

A hard nosed person might argue the replacement engine in a 2 y old boat as long as it was like for like and hasn’t effected the original performance is not a reason to reject .The boats 2 yr old .It would have been under warranty?

I guess it’s what it says in the contract you signed ( assuming it’s U.K. based ?)

Some rightfully argue that you should re write or add a clause you can walk away for any reason .

In the Med it’s all rather informal FWIW , just like car buying .In my experience you just get your bum in the seat ( helm on a boat ) and off you go with the salesperson . No cash changes hands beforehand.

I have test driven a few boats on that basis , rather like cars .

 

[Portofino]

I was informed the boat made 3480 on 2nd sea trail but I was unable to attend.
I still had concerns of the boat being under powered and the deal breaker was the fact the broker asked the engineer to withhold information from me, bearing in mid the engineer was acting on my behalf what else was being covered up?
I acted in good faith but this has been an eye opener for sure.

Yes you are right when all things are added up .
Out of interest did you see a pic of the rpm ? You know like I demonstrated ^^^ further up to a nay say doers on here that they should be able to reach rated rpm .

You need to hold them for a while and watch the temp gauge it’s shouldn’t move , or if it does only slightly.
Mine sat at 84 on one and 85 on the other .This indicates the gen condition of the cooling apparatus.
Its no biggie if it were to rise say to 89 or 92 , it just tells the buyer it’s ready for a strip down , poss water pump refurb etc .
This can be factored in the adjusted price .If it soars and alarms thats not good .Or write something beforehand in the contract about it needs to meet rated rpm , or it’s rejected .

Different folks accept different rpms in relation to WOT and different temp risers .

Ideally as I said they should reach manufacturers rated rpm ( irrespective of age ) and hold there jacket temps .
The boat should be pre prepared by who ever to pass this trial .

I have seen 42 knots in a Itama 62 at 2472 rpm ( rated 2400 ) and no temp rise .
I have seen 38 knots in a Riva 52 , similar engines ^ and no temp rises .
Both with me helming and trimming for the last 0.1 knot .
Inspected the engine rooms at the dock later for weeps / seeps / leeks = nothing

The Itama had 60 hrs on it and was the 2019 Cannes demo .The Riva was about 5 yrs old had 400 hrs and was on a pontoon for sale in Monaco, we just jumped on it and went out .Rejected the Riva because it was a bit too bouncy and slammed more than we were looking for .
Been on a few more and similarly WOT Ed them looking for a slight over age .

I honest don’t see why not ? This is Med based experience.Maybe the UKs culture is different- selling boats , normalisation of the inability to reach rated manufacturers rated WOT ?Running around overloaded all the time - Perhaps a few Solent boaters will chime in and set the uk bar ?

Good luck next time .

 

[rafiki_]

For completeness, the boat “failed” the first sea trial as it was erroneously trialled before the lift and clean. On the second sea trial the boat performed as advertised, so did not fail.
If underpowered, how did it make the advertised performance?

 

[stelican]

For completeness, the boat “failed” the first sea trial as it was erroneously trialled before the lift and clean. On the second sea trial the boat performed as advertised, so did not fail.
If underpowered, how did it make the advertised performance?

It reached its advertised performance but robably available with larger engines for improved performance.

 

[Portofino]

Did it have the same props for both sea trials ? Bare in mind it was lifted in between.
No ones said how fast it went @ 3480 rpm .

Why hide a engine switch on a 2 y old boat and why did the broker ask the engineer to with hold data ? Which data ?Temps ? Fuel burn ?

I agree with Stelican if possible try and find one with the largest engine option , or turned around steer away from just enough Hp , boats “ on the edge “ .Nice to know what boat it is ?

 

[MapisM]

I was informed the boat made 3480 on 2nd sea trail but I was unable to attend.
I still had concerns of the boat being under powered and the deal breaker was the fact the broker asked the engineer to withhold information from me, bearing in mid the engineer was acting on my behalf what else was being covered up?
I acted in good faith but this has been an eye opener for sure.

I'm struggling a bit with your logic/expectations, and while I wish you to find another boat you will be happy with, I have a funny feeling that it won't take long before you'll regret having missed this one.
I mean, you were unable to attend the "true" seatrial (after a wrong first one which shouldn't have been done at all, to start with), and now you're claiming that the boat failed it when for all you know she actually didn't - and clearly, not having been able to attend it is not something you can blame anyone else for.
Besides, as I understand, the broker informed YOUR engineer that one engine was replaced (something that can and does happen on brand new boats more frequently than you would think), and YOUR engineer didn't inform you.
Now, the fact that the broker asked this engineer to not inform you sounds very weird indeed: it would have been easier not to mention it at all, methinks.
But even assuming that this is what actually happened, I'd rather blame myself for my engineer choice rather than a broker who is obviously acting on the seller behalf.

Anyway, if you want to call off the deal, that's your choice of course.
But frankly, withholding the deposit in such situation is a normal practice, and if you don't think that's fair, it's another point in your train of thoughts that I'm struggling to understand.

 

[rafiki_]

It reached its advertised performance but robably available with larger engines for improved performance.

And a notably higher price. The boat is a hard top family cruiser, not a sports boat. Performance of this boat is more than adequate for a family cruiser. If you want sports boat performance, buy a sports boat.

 

[stelican]

And a notably higher price. The boat is a hard top family cruiser, not a sports boat. Performance of this boat is more than adequate for a family cruiser. If you want sports boat performance, buy a sports boat.


If it is the type of boat you surmise then these are a available with whole range of engine simply to make the smaller options version more price attractive/competitive.
Sports boats are also offered with many engine options. All in my experience!

 

[MapisM]

Maybe the very same boat could even reach the moon if fitted with cryogenic rocket engines, but that's a red herring.
Martxer knew the boat he was interested in and her builder's specifications, which were met upon seatrial.
If afterwards he changed his mind and now wants to go faster, of course he'd better look for something else.
He just shouldn't complain if this means losing the deposit, which is only fair and to be expected.