Sunsail Boats

[flaming]

Was just wondering whether anyone has any experience racing the Sunfast 37s that Sunsail has in Port Solent. We're scheduled to do the student nationals in them in a couple of weeks time so any tuning tips or general tips for speed would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Ed

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[ChrisE]

I skippered one last year in an international MBA race.

Generally, the boats were OK and Sunsails's organisation of the races was very professional. They organise the race boat and and 6 races three each on Sat and Sun.

In terms of their perofrmance, I'm no racer so others may be able to advise. The one thing we learnt the hard way was that the mainsheet has to be central to get maximum upwind performance. One of our trimmers decided that an upwind postion would eanble us to point higher which we did but at the expense of losing a lot of boat speed. Apparently, this is a well known feature of the class.

Enjoy your race.

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[racingron]

Done a couple of events on them.

They only have #3's so are very underpowered in light airs - as Chris says, sail it free and fast. They're pretty heavy - as far as your class rules allow, get the liferaft/dinghy/anchor etc. out of the cockpit and put on the keel. They've a fat bum and it drags in the light stuff.

Also you can either dip pole or end for end - in the light stuff I would end for end and not have separate sheets and guys as the kites are heavy enough as it is.

Forehatch drops and hoists a must.

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[david_e]

Re: Mainsheet

Do you mean the postion of the block on the track or the position of the boom relative to the boat ie along the centreline of the boat?

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[ChrisE]

Re: Mainsheet

Block on the track. We were in lightish wind conditions and this closing of the slot, albeit marginally, killed the boatspeed. With this answer, I'm at the very edge of my limited knowledge of aerodynamics/ boat trim!

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[john_morris_uk]

Re: Mainsheet

May I humbly suggest that if the winds were that light, moving the travellor to the unpwind position might have been the right thing to do if it was in an attempt to get the correct amount of twist in the main. However on some boats sometimes you have to put the topping lift back on and take some weight off the boom to allow the top of the main to fall away and so gain the twist that you are seeking. (depends what sort of a kicker you've got etc)

The test is to monitor the leach tell tails on the main and ensure that they are all flying most of the time - and collapsing simultaneously when they do collapse, thus ensuring the mainsail twist is correct.

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[Bathfanjim]

Re: Mainsheet

As a mastman on a racing Baltic 37 on the east coast I find myself in the embarassing position of being totally confused by what you are talking about!

SO - can anyone recommend any good books/publications/websites for improving my sail trimming technique/knowledge etc?! I always knew I was employed for my brawn and not brain....

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[ChrisE]

Re: Mainsheet

John,

You may well be correct, I'm right out of my depth on this subject. My initial report was based upon talking to a Sunsail skipper who reported this as a common problem.

Perhaps this revolves around what is meant by light airs, we were sailing in f3/4 and noticed that we were holding our own on the downwind and reach sections but were being left behind when going upwind. Being a Rival owner, upwind is the one area of sailing that I thought I knew a bit about so I was mystified and hence my comment.



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[Twister_Ken]

Book recommendation

'Looking at Sails' by Dick Kenny and Bruce Banks.

Out of print, but still available secondhand from Amazon.

Look carefully and you might spot someone who looks a lot like a younger, slimmer version of Twister Ken in some of the pix.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.writeforweb.com/twister1>Let's Twist Again</A>

 

[david_e]

Re: sail info

Check out the UK Sails website www.uksailmakers.com usually has lots of info and some interesting stuff on rules as well which could improve your crew-cred

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[TonyD]

One word of warning - when racing in a large charter fleet, there will be many skippers who don't race regularly and who will be "rusty" on the rules. They don't necessarily give way when they should, no matter how loud you shout. Last time I was out there were several collisions, resulting in significant damage. One Tee-bone incident left a hole in the side big enough to climb through and took out all the electronics! Fortunately there were no injuries, but that was more by good luck than good skippering.

Bloody good fun for the rest of the time, though, so enjoy yourself.

TonyD

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[Rob_Webb]

We always used to empty the water tanks as we motored down the harbour.

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[racingron]

Re: Mainsheet

The best I've ever seen is Ivor Dedekams Sail and Rig tuning - a small book with very clear and concise explanations and diagrams.

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[Ruffles]

Ron,

I had a free weekend on one at the end of last season.

Our boat was rigged with combined sheets/guys like a dinghy. Instead of having the guy snatch block fixed to the rail it was on the end of a line which allows the 'sheet' to become a 'guy' when it is pulled in. If you see what I mean

Is this common? It seems a good idea.

Rob.

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[Twister_Ken]

Combined sheet and guy

Pulling-in string is called either a Barber Hauler, or a Barbour Hauler, but has nothing to do with short back and sides, or green wellies.

As you say, common on dinghies and smaller boats, but I've never seen it on a boat the size of 37'. I'd worry about gybing a kite that big on single lines in a bit of breeze. Though maybe Sunsail set an upper wind limit for kite flying?

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.writeforweb.com/twister1>Let's Twist Again</A>

 

[ChrisE]

Re: Combined sheet and guy

Just being a bit of potterer when it comes to spi flying, I have a question. When cruising we just use a single bit of string to port and starboard of the spi using them as sheets or guys depending upon the tack, rethreading as necessary. Is the reason for using two that you can use a lighter bit of string for the sheet to allow the spi to fill properly or just faster gybing? Or is there another reason and thus I been sailing dangerously/hopelessly inefficiently for the past few years?

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[jimi]

Re: Combined sheet and guy

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ybw.com/auto/newsdesk/20040222100848ywnews.html>Would'nr worry Chris, apparently you don't even need a mast these days</A>

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[ChrisE]

Re: Combined sheet and guy

..or a rudder?

I notice from the kite web site that the sail uses 'leading edge double bladder technology', would this be of help at Weymouth?
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[racingron]

Re: Combined sheet and guy

A lot of whether you have separate sheets and guys comes down to how you gybe your spinnaker:

For Dip pole gybing (the inboard end of the pole stays on the mast and the outboard end is swung to the man at the front and the new guy placed in the beak) you need separate sheets and guys - if you did not, when going in to the gybe you would have to pull down on the new guy (old sheet) which would more likely than not collapse the kite.

For end to end gybing (the pole is removed at the inboard end, the old sheet is put in the beak (now the new guy), the old guy (now the sheet) is removed and the old outboard end of the pole is placed on the mast). In this instance you do not need a separate guy to keep the kite flying.

Also with Dip pole gybing the guys are stronger rope than the sheets, the loads on the guys are much more than the sheets.

Pros and Cons:

Dip pole gybing is quicker
If there is problem, when dip poling, the kite can be flown on the sheets until the pole is sorted
End to end means you don't need guys (extra string and weight on the clews)
On bigger boats (anything from 35' upwards) the pole can be too heavy to end for end.

The block you refer to as a Barber Hauler is also called a twinning line or tweaker (a barber hauler is strictly for a jib/genoa sheet I believe (not trying to be facetious)). When trimming the kite on the sheet the hauler should only be used when dead downwind and the leech is too twisted, exhausting air from the top down and not shaping efficiently.
It can also help to control the gybes if both new and old sheets are fully pulled down.

My point with the Sunsail 37's was if it's light end for end gybe (slower but kite will trim better). If it's blowing separate sheets and guys, faster and more control.



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[ChrisE]

Re: Combined sheet and guy

Thanks for the very lucid explanation. Being a cruiser we only gybe about once a week so have never worried about the efficiency. So, it's off to the chandlery for yet more string!

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