Suggestions for Short list - Build Quality is important

[wytco0]

I am continuing my search for potential boats to buy for my somewhat unclear future plans !! My very unclear plans are to buy something within the next 6-12 months, then to spend a year or 2 sailing around the UK gaining experience and sailing with as many people as I can. Then in about 2013/4 setting off on a much longer trip potentially RTW.

I have now visited a few marinas etc. to look at boats and I am no nearer having any idea of what to put on my short list. Incidentally I have found that visiting marinas in the UK is not a very enjoyable experience as many of them seem to treat visitors like criminals and its very difficult to get anywhere near boats and its next to impossible to talk to owners about their boats.

However although I haven't managed to get anything onto my list I am clear about a few things:

1. I only want to buy one boat in this lifetime so I want to get it right.
2. I would like to go for the strongest best built boat I can find, I am talking about the quality of the build of the boat structure rather that the quality of the toilet/fridge etc.
3. I would like something that is capable of handling a long voyage across oceans at some point in the future so I would like something that's strong and reasonable comfortable and capable of handling 'blue water'.
4. I expect that I will have to sail alone much of the time and so single handed sailing capability is important, I think this means 10m approx max length.
5. I would prefer to not have to keep it in a marina but I think this is unlikely to fit in with the above.
6. I am not interested in racing or ultimate speed but I would like something that sails well and safely with good predictable and safe handling characteristics.
7. I have not yet set a budget for the boat and from my investigations so far, this keeps creeping up, however I won't pay more than £50k and I would hope to pay much less than that and I want something that does not need to be rebuilt.


Am I trying to do the impossible can I get away with only buying one boat? I would love some recommendations for my short list, and especially some guidance about the build quality of boats, which makers are good and which are bad.

Has anyone done something similar or know any links to anyone who has or is? if so please let me know.

Thanks.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Not sure on prices (easy to check) but you could start with...

Tradewind 33
Rival 32 or 34
Rustler 31
Hustler 30
Nicholson 31
Nicholson 32
Halmatic 30
Challenger/Voyager 35

Those are all older designs and consequently were built in the days before GRP resins cost a fortune, when stress analysis had hardly been heard of. Consequently, they are built like brick dunnies but still have more than adequate sailing performance.

You may find the following link useful for pix and commentary, but not all boats are there:

http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives.htm

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I think you misunderstand marinas. They aren't meant to be open to the public, in general. Their brief is to provide a secure home for yachts and their owners; that's why you can get a reduction in insurance for being in one. So part of the deal a marina provides is security fencing etc. They also provide facilities for berth holders; such facilities are normally accessed by the same security system as the berths themselves. Naturally, they don't want to provide the facilities for anyone who walks off the street.

So, basically, I'd be unhappy if I found the marina where I berth was allowing people who want to find out more about boats to wander round the pontoons unless they were invited guests on a particular boat. After all, while you want to find out more with a view to purchasing, others might want to find out more to case the joint, so to speak. And while I might be unhappy, my insurers would be even more unhappy, possibly to the extent of holding the marina responsible if I had to make a claim for theft or criminal damage.

Finally, while most, if not all yacht owners are quite happy to be asked questions about their boat, the answers will NOT be the kind of neutral information you need; we all love our boats and tend to be blind to their weaknesses! Also, what suits me might not suit you; my sailing experience and expectation is going to be different from yours. I love the look of Dragons, for example, and if I were 20 I might consider one! But I am long past the days of "roughing it", and sailing performance and beauty are not enough any more. You should also bear in mind that for most people, their yacht is their holiday home - treat yachts like people's homes, and you'll be about right. And that means, appreciate that they may not wish to be "on view"!

I'd suggest that you have two approaches that would be good:

1) Browse at yacht brokers, who will have a range of yachts that are for sale, and which you will normally be able to have access to for viewing. Don't worry - decent yacht brokers fully understand that people need to see a wide range of yachts before understanding their own needs and how that fits what is on the market. It also gives you the opportunity of seeing boats in and out of the water.

2) Charter yachts of types that you think you'd be interested in. For example, it is only recently that I was able to invest in my own yacht. But I had developed a clear idea of the general type of yacht that would be suitable for me from chartering, and from advice from friends and family.

3) Of course, I suppose that reviews in magazines might be worth browsing!

 

[Seajet]

For this sort of use a pilot house boat may be the way to go, but the target is so wide and indeterminate you could end up with anything from a Mirror Offshore a la Dylan, Halberdier motorsailer, to a Victoria 30, if they drop below £50K !

 

[sighmoon]

Not sure on prices (easy to check) but you could start with...

Tradewind 33
Rival 32 or 34
Rustler 31
Hustler 30
Nicholson 31
Nicholson 32
Halmatic 30
Challenger/Voyager 35

You may find the following link useful for pix and commentary, but not all boats are there:

http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives.htm

All heavy displacement, British and available way under budget.

My wife found this book on an oil rig:
http://books.google.com/books/about/The_Complete_Guide_to_Choosing_a_Cruisin.html?id=TVXR_NyINHoC

It talks about how to evaluate sailing characteristics from looking at a boat, and its vital statistics. I'd recommed it.

From there you can browse websites like yachtworld.

 

[prv]

spend a year or 2 sailing around the UK gaining experience and sailing with as many people as I can. Then in about 2013/4 setting off on a much longer trip potentially RTW.

How much sailing have you done already? It'll help people pitch their advice appropriately.

Incidentally I have found that visiting marinas in the UK is not a very enjoyable experience as many of them seem to treat visitors like criminals and its very difficult to get anywhere near boats

That's because, unfortunately, in many areas there's a good chance that someone who isn't involved with a particular boat in the marina and just wants to "get close to boats" is a criminal. Boats are inherently difficult to secure and generally have lots of very nickable stuff on board, and theft from them (not so much of them) is a problem. Marina berthholders want to have confidence that neither staff nor their fellow residents are allowing random folk off the street to wander around the pontoons. [/QUOTE]

4. I expect that I will have to sail alone much of the time and so single handed sailing capability is important, I think this means 10m approx max length.

Seems a good choice, especially if your budget is limited. Not that this is a bargain-basement size; people can and do go smaller.

5. I would prefer to not have to keep it in a marina but I think this is unlikely to fit in with the above.

Why?

The point of marinas is convenience. If you're willing to trade that off against reduced cost for a mooring, do so. If you're sailing round the world, especially the less developed bits, you're unlikely to spend all that much time in marinas so you might as well get used to rowing ashore from the start.

Has anyone done something similar or know any links to anyone who has or is? if so please let me know.

If you haven't read the Pardey books already, there's probably some good stuff in them for you. Don't take it all as gospel though, as they tend to take a very old-fashioned approach which not everyone will agree with.

Pete

 

[snooks]

Where to start?......You want good quality, but don't want to pay for it, you want an ocean going yacht, and don't want have to do anything to it, you want your first boat to be THE ONE.

Don't we all!

It's a tall order, not impossible, but it not too far off it, prepare yourself to have to spend more money or compromise

First off how many different boats have you sailed? What did you like/dislike about them?

Ken's list was a good starter, but I'd question the Hustler 30, pretty boat, but the overhangs cost space, and could be replaced by:
Contessa/Sader 32
Sadler 34
Nicolson 35, a push at £50K admittedly
Ohlson 35 still has the overhangs though

Basically you should start your search around the 30-35 ft mark for boats build around the late 70s early 80, and expect them to have been used, have signs of wear, and need some work doing to them. Some might need new electronics, but if your heading off RTW you'll be happier knowing everything is new and works, rather than find out it doesn't mid Atlantic.

You might get lucky and find a boat that has just come back and you can pick up where they left off, but they might not be in UK waters though.

Oh and marinas aren't for sight seeing they are for the boat owners who pay thousands of pounds a year to keep their boat safe and secure and have walk on and off convenience

 

[Seajet]

Another way to get experience with various boats ( and skippering styles ! ) would be to place a 'crew available' postcard detailing your experience - novices are often welcome as long as they're enthusiastic - in sailing clubs; one has to approach the club secretary usually, strolling in and introducing oneself, explaining what you want on a Sunday lunchtime usually works.

The browsing in marinas strikes me as akin to plane spotting; in the old days there were observation galleries at airports, but nowadays if you stand around with binoculars, clip board and taking notes you're likely to find a Hechler & Koch machine gun in your ear !

There's only so much you can learn by observation anyway, reading up and getting out sailing is the answer.

 

[Wansworth]

I know someone selling a nic 32 mk 10 but its in Spain.Ready to go but it does not have a shower of fridge!The boats circumnavigated.

 

[Blueboatman]

Its a shame you are not at this stage considering ''some'' rebuilding work, because...

All those 30 foot boats now become 36 foot boats, which in ocean crossing terms will be quite useful. Go and have a look at all kens list and that Sheepy Shaun's but look at the 'next size up' too, if only for reference and research purposes.

Remember, if you have a modicum of time and handyman skills, boatbuilding is not exactly rocket science, and costing your time at a trheoretical boatyard rate of £25-£40 per hour, boats that need work can represent a REAL bargain.

 

[Tranona]

Your brief is a very tall order and you will almost certainly have to compromise somewhere along the way. As said already, £50k bars you from modern boats that meet your requirements so you will have to look at boats between 30 and 50 years old, some of which have been mentioned already, but here are many more. In this market the overriding criterion (once you have narrowed down the type) is condition and equipment. Although boats needing work can look attractive they invariably cost more to bring up to scratch than buying a good one in the first place -unless of course you derive pleasure from constantly fixing things up.

It is perhaps unreasonable to expect to get the "right" boat first time if you don't have the experience to know what you are looking for. You only have to look around at the wide variety of boats people use for the purpose you have in mind to see that there is no such thing as the "ideal" boat.

One approach is to dip your toe in the water with a more modest boat - you can get perfectly adequate boats in the 26-30ft range, ready to go for less than £20k. For example a really good Twister, fully fitted for ocean voyaging changed hands recntly for less than £15k. Have a go with such a boat, find out what you like and don't like then look for the final boat. Nothing could be worse than imagining what you buy is what you want, spend a fortune in time and money and then find you don't like it after all!

Good luck with your search.

 

[jonic]

50K might get you a Westerly Corsair or a Moody 376

 

[snooks]

Although boats needing work can look attractive they invariably cost more to bring up to scratch than buying a good one in the first place

Agreed. An expensive boat is often the cheapest

 

[Tranona]

50K might get you a Westerly Corsair or a Moody 376

Based my abortive attempt at buying one of these and looking at lots, not one remotely ready to go! Only 376 I would have considered sold for just shy of £70k the day it went on the market!

Perhaps not the ideal single handed boats either, but good for a couple.

 

[E39mad]

Vancouver 32's are coming in at that budget and under now. Designed as a cutter, beautifully balanced helm for windvane or tiller pilot and seriously proven.

Is £50k an all in price or just the purchase price before adding/upgrading?

Alternatively there's a cheap (for the marque) Vancouver 28 in Plymouth for sale on yachtworld - 1996 vintage asking £31,000 - usually ask above £45k!

 

[dylanwinter]

why the one and only boat

I think you will find that most sailors have owned more than one boat

what you are hoping to do is to compress what most people take ten years learning into two years

nothing wrong with that people can go from zilch to ocean sailor in three months

you want two diffrent sailing experiences

the first is sailing around a very crinkly, tidal, rocky island

the other is schlepping off across oceans

As sailors change the type of sailing they do they also change boats

I have explored in small boats and raced in - what at the time - were medium sized yachts

the type also depends as much on their sailing opportunities as personal preference

some people lust after that speed and grace

I have never crossed an ocean in a small yacht - and done very little night sailing

but......

it seems to me that you clearly want the independence of sailing your own yacht - as opposed to being a crew on another persons yacht

fully understand that

my advice, for what its worth, is to buy a smaller and much cheaper boat now

start sailing it next week

buy anything you can find that does not need any work done on it - sail it for a year and then decide how to spend the remaining money

if you buy good and comon - such as a Centaur - then you can sell it at the end of the year quickly and easily

An ideal boat for saiiling around the UK - it can sit on a drying mooring - you could live on it - especially if it is in a marina

However, I fear that the money is burning a hole in your pocket

but if I were you I would leave 80 per cent of your money in the bank


that way you would have the ideal boat for exploring and learning - like learning to drive on an old Escort

other sailors will also talk to you about their boats once they realise you have one

it will distinguish you from the average goozler

Then, after a year of sailing and exploring your home waters buy the yachting equivalent of a Range Rover for your World Trip

However, its a dream you are fulfilling here -

and if fulfilling that dream requires a big yacht and you have the money..... then spend it and have a great time - I am sure that wether your spend money now... or later.... it is determination that will see your dream fulfilled

However, if you have an itch - there is more than one way of scratching it

you can scratch it with a cheap stick - or with an expensive one

the slug cost me £2,000

this sort of sailing is not what everyone wants to do....but if I want to find somewhere to test myself and my boat then I can also do that in it

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/2010-season/lower-alde-and-iken-cliff/


Blimey!

Dylan

 

[Sans Bateau]

I think you misunderstand marinas. They aren't meant to be open to the public, in general. Their brief is to provide a secure home for yachts and their owners; that's why you can get a reduction in insurance for being in one. So part of the deal a marina provides is security fencing etc. They also provide facilities for berth holders; such facilities are normally accessed by the same security system as the berths themselves. Naturally, they don't want to provide the facilities for anyone who walks off the street.

Fully agree, I would be extremely annoyed if my marina were to allow a stranger to wander around just looking at boats.

 

[wytco0]

Wow wow wow .....

Just logged in a fter a few hours and there is more useful info posted here than I have managed to put together from several months of investigations.

This forum is is amazing.

I am going to digest all of the above before commenting more but for now thanks to everyone for your advice so far, please keep it coming.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Just logged in a fter a few hours and there is more useful info posted here than I have managed to put together from several months of investigations.

This forum is is amazing.

I am going to digest all of the above before commenting more but for now thanks to everyone for your advice so far, please keep it coming.

In your boots, I might see if I could stretch the wallet for this, provided it really is in good order. New engine, recent sails, new rigging.

 

[Seven Spades]

Three boats:-

1. Contessa 32

2. Sadler 34

3. Westerly Storm.

Your best bet is the Contessa 32. It has a huge following it does everything on your list, they are still made today and you will get a really nice one for your budget and it will be relatively easy to sell when you want a change. It is not the biggest inside and it can get a bit wet in the cockpit, but so do a lot of heavy displacement boats.

Most of the other mentioned will also tick the boxes but really this is a sensible choice and there are a lot to choose from and lots of advice available.

Contessas for sale:

http://www.co32.org/SECTION_Market/MARKET_Boats.aspx

If you want more space then the Sadler 34 is a good choice:-

http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/sadler-34/sadler-34.htm