Suffolk Sailing - River Orwell - Deep Draft Keel vs Shoal Draft Keel

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DueSouth

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I am planning to keep my yacht on the River Orwell, the marina I have in mind assure me that I should be able to have access at any tide. The boat I am looking at have a 1.98m draft and I see a shoal keel version is available for this boat and comes in at 1.49m...

Can anybody share their experience of sailing around of the river Orwell area? Will the 'extra' 49cm on the standard keel make a huge difference?

I plan to explore some of the rivers in the area, apparently there are some backwaters ideal for dropping anchor and letting the children play on the dingy...

Anybody with local knowledge please share your thoughts - Also, where can I get tide details for the area so I can do my own research.

Many thanks
 
You could have put this in the East Coast section for a targeted response. There are many people around here with fin keels of up to 2m who are quite happy with their choice. I am round the corner at Titchmarsh and opted for a 1.5m fin as an alternative to the standard 1.8. This gives me an extra hour or so at the pinch points and something that I am pleased to have done, but much depends on the relative performances of the two versions. I have sailed with and raced against sister ships with deep keels and I know that the difference in my case is very slight, even giving me an advantage in some conditions. This is not the case with all designs, though it may be the case that modern boats are better. The Sadler 32 for example came with various keel options and the shallow fin was scarcely better than the twin keel version. Even my 1.5m doesn’t allow me to ‘explore’ the East Coast in the way that some people like to do, and for this I would expect to anchor and explore in a dinghy. It does mean that I can be a bit more careless when rounding the Naze at LW, for example. I would say that either option is feasible and it depends a bit on your style.
 
johnalison said:
You could have put this in the East Coast section for a targeted response. There are many people around here with fin keels of up to 2m who are quite happy with their choice. I am round the corner at Titchmarsh and opted for a 1.5m fin as an alternative to the standard 1.8. This gives me an extra hour or so at the pinch points and something that I am pleased to have done, but much depends on the relative performances of the two versions. I have sailed with and raced against sister ships with deep keels and I know that the difference in my case is very slight, even giving me an advantage in some conditions. This is not the case with all designs, though it may be the case that modern boats are better. The Sadler 32 for example came with various keel options and the shallow fin was scarcely better than the twin keel version. Even my 1.5m doesn’t allow me to ‘explore’ the East Coast in the way that some people like to do, and for this I would expect to anchor and explore in a dinghy. It does mean that I can be a bit more careless when rounding the Naze at LW, for example. I would say that either option is feasible and it depends a bit on your style.
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Thanks for the feedback - Where/How do I post on East Coast section?
 
I have the same issue in Poole Harbour. although our marina has deep water access, a lot of the harbour channels are narrow and shallow, and perhaps more important for me the quieter eastern entrance to the harbour has a shallow bar. So I made a conscious decision to order the shallow (1.5m) keel to give me more options. However if only the deep keel had been available I would have gone with it and lived with the restrictions. The important thing is that with a modern fin keel you are not going to dry out up a quiet creek like you can with a bilge keel or centreboard so it is primarily an issue of access.

As to performance, it varies. My previous boat with shallow keel was not good to windward compared with the deep keel, although better sails would have helped, whereas the current one is fine. Several of our club members have centreboard Beneteau or Jeanneau and these are a good compromise, although more maintenance. As you are buying used, you can only buy what is on offer and shallow keels are generally less common. There are much more important things to consider than draught so would not have it high on the list of priorities.
 
Here you go:

East Coast Forum

I’m on the Orwell and have lifting keel. Very useful though you have to factor in cost of keel maintenance obviously. Depends on what sort of sailing you do I guess. I’m an estuary potterer- so shoal draft important to me, if you’re more of a ‘cross the North Sea regularly’ type I’d go for deep draft. I’ve got best of both worlds but it comes at a cost.
 
I berth at Shotley with a 1.8 m draft, I value sailing to windward out on open water but enjoy going up the local rivers. Orwell is deep enough for Container ships in main channel but need to be careful tacking as the edges get shallow. I like Stour for anchoring and regularly visit Holbrook Bay which I can stay for a few hours around high tide. Deben and Walton I would always approach on a rising tide. I always make sure my depth alarm is on and I have read a quote “there are two types of East Coast Sailor, either have run-a-ground or going to.”

i am in the former group now but on a rising tide so put anchor out and cooked lunch, lifted anchor and headed home (hence always turn on depth alarm.)

looking at tidal chart for today difference between 2.0m and 1.5m is about an hour so at anchorage you would get say an extra two hours

If you really want try to creek crawling a bilge keel is unbeatable with its ability to dry out but a deep keel will always be better to windward and I know my boat always amazes me how close it sails to wind but I never think twice about leaving the anchorage at the allotted time I need to leave by.
 
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DueSouth said:
I am planning to keep my yacht on the River Orwell, the marina I have in mind assure me that I should be able to have access at any tide. The boat I am looking at have a 1.98m draft and I see a shoal keel version is available for this boat and comes in at 1.49m...

Can anybody share their experience of sailing around of the river Orwell area? Will the 'extra' 49cm on the standard keel make a huge difference?

I plan to explore some of the rivers in the area, apparently there are some backwaters ideal for dropping anchor and letting the children play on the dingy...

Anybody with local knowledge please share your thoughts - Also, where can I get tide details for the area so I can do my own research.

Many thanks
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I will get dozens of people disagree with me but here goes. If you wish to explore the east coast then the less water you draw the better. I know dozens of people with fin keel boats who only go from one marina to another and never dare leave the channel. The east coast is mud so if you run aground, which you will sooner or later, beware. My boat draws 1 meter, is bilge keel and can go to so many fun places. How many people reading this have been into Manningtree or deep into Walton back water. By the way Manningtree is a super friendly club with cheap beer.
I ran aground last year crossing buxey/ray sand, no harm done as I just waited for the tide. Unless you are going to race around with a full crew buy a boat that suits this area.
 
shanemax said:
I will get dozens of people disagree with me but here goes. If you wish to explore the east coast then the less water you draw the better. I know dozens of people with fin keel boats who only go from one marina to another and never dare leave the channel. The east coast is mud so if you run aground, which you will sooner or later, beware. My boat draws 1 meter, is bilge keel and can go to so many fun places. How many people reading this have been into Manningtree or deep into Walton back water. By the way Manningtree is a super friendly club with cheap beer.
I ran aground last year crossing buxey/ray sand, no harm done as I just waited for the tide. Unless you are going to race around with a full crew buy a boat that suits this area.
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There is a lot of merit in that, but the OP is looking at modern 32-35' boats and the chances of getting bilge keels are just about zero - the choice is either 1.5 or 1.9 (approx) fin keels or , more limited centreplate. There is no perfect boat and it is being aware of the limitations that is important. What you lose in not being able to dry out or access remote places is generally superior accommodation and better sailing performance plus of course more "newness".
 
Paulfireblade said:
I have read a quote “there are two types of East Coast Sailor, either have run-a-ground or going to.”
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I thought it was "There are two types of East Coast sailors - those who have gone aground and liars!" I managed it within an hour of embarking on my first East Coast passage, just outside Lowestoft!

I have a Moody 31 with a 1.6m fin keel. Obviously, I can't go places where I expect to go aground deliberately, but I've never found it a constraint otherwise. But I have little interest in muddy creeks; I'd relocate back to the West coast of Scotland in a flash if I felt the logistics worked out!
 
tillergirl said:
Er, Dick. Was that an advert? :LOL:?:LOL:

Thread drift: AP, I think we should award you 2 Nause Points. I think describing the Orwell as a 'muddy creek' is a bit.......... well, it is accurate but....... ????
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I make an exception for proper rivers like the Orwell, Stour, Deben etc. Hamford Water is OK, too. I'm more thinking of places you can wade across with mud shoes at low tide.
 
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