Stuffing a sail into a bag vs flaking carefully.

[fredrussell]

So I’ve just finished installing my removable inner forestay, with hank-on working jib, and a great success it is too. However, putting away the sail after flaking neatly is nigh on impossible without a sheltered non-boaty space to work in. Sail is relatively new and nice and stiff still, I’m wondering how much stuffing it into a sail bag will shorten sail life, if at all. Any thoughts?

 

[DFL1010]

In short, quite a bit.

Since it's a hanked sail, you can achieve a pretty reasonable flake when it's still attached to the stay. Ideally, one person at the stay flakes it as it comes down whilst the other lowers the halyard slowly or lifts the sail (depending on the wind conditions), but it can be done single handed if required.
Much better for the sail in the long run.

The other option, which is the best for the sail, is to roll it. This may be feasible since it's an inner forestay, but then you've a long sailbag to find a home for.

 

[flaming]

Depends what the sail is made from. If it's a basic Dacron, then yes it will shorten its life, but not by an absolutely massive amount and if it's only an occasional use sail then you may decide this is worth it for ease of use.

If it's any type of laminate, then not flaking it will reduce the life rather considerably.

What sort of bag do you have? If your sailmaker has only supplied a stuff sack type, go back and request a proper jib bag. Then you can simply zip the flaked sail into the bag. Much easier.

 

[Wing Mark]

A working jib might be made of a fabric more tolerant of abuse than a racing sail, but I think this is why they invented furlers?

Would rolling it on a plastic drainpipe work?

 

[neil_s]

Do the best you can. In the heat of a sail change, stuffing into the bag is better than trampling all over the sail left on the floor, but I try and do a tidy stow when a quiet moment comes along.

 

[fredrussell]

Cheers for replies. I should have said, sail is a non-fabulous Dacron number, made by Elvstrom . It’s one season old, bought second hand. I know Elvstrom are not the best, but it’s nice and stiff and sets well. I do have the original barely used roller furling blade jib that I’m probably going to convert to Hank-on in the future. Genny is a 150% whopper, which is a nuisance to change single handed, hence inner forestay project.

 

[NormanS]

Any sail stuffed into a bag takes up a lot more space than one neatly flaked and folded.

 

[fredrussell]

Do the best you can. In the heat of a sail change, stuffing into the bag is better than trampling all over the sail left on the floor, but I try and do a tidy stow when a quiet moment comes along.

I think this is the answer. I’ll just post dropped sail through forehatch and roll sail up back at base. I’ll make a long zipped bag for it.

 

[Skylark]

.

 

[Bobc]

To be honest, if the sail is soft enough for you to be able to "stuff it" into a bag, then it's pretty-much shot already.

 

[johnalison]

I'm impressed by aanyone who can boast not one but two areas of woodland on his foredeck.

As regards sails, they can be a devil to deal with, and well-meaning advice from those who have the flat areas and assistance to do the job easily doesn't always help. For a difficult jib, I would personally pull the clew aft and flake the sail down to the deck, in the way that some sailors do when they tie the sail to the rail. I would tie the sail into a sausage and fold it into three, when it should fit into the bag well enough to be taken home for a better job. After years of struggle, I have found that this is the best way of dealing with my main, which, being loose-footed, can be turned into a sausage before it is detached.

 

[capnsensible]

I found that pre furlibg headsail, this was a typical and routine job. Generally carried out on the side deck whilst the sail was still hanked on. As with everything, it's all about practice plus getting on with it. A lot of my early years of sailing involved wet and uncomfortable hours on the foredeck changing sails whilst racing. So for me it's a doddle. But I love roller furling....

 

[fredrussell]

I'm impressed by aanyone who can boast not one but two areas of woodland on his foredeck…

Arf! Bloody phone strikes again. I have edited it - cheers..

 

[Daydream believer]

I stuff mine ito a sail bag temporarily, Carry it up to the grass at the marina. Check for the past presence of dogs. Lay the sail out on the grass & with the help of an assistant flake it. Once neatly flaked it can be rolled then put into the bag having first put a sail tie round it.
With my fully battened mainsail, I draw that off the boom from the lazy bag forward (having first released it from the mast, reefing lines etc) tying sail ties round it as I go, dropping it into the brilliant sail bag supplied by Hyde. The lazy bag comes off in 2 parts next & goes in the bag.
I take that to the carpark, tie it to a ladder, place it on the luggage rack of the car & take it home. Then when the wife is in a good ( well better than usual) mood we spread it on the lawn & flake it properly & put it in the bag again.
It normally goes in the loft with the other 2 mainsails.
But so far this year, it is living in the lounge behind the settee & i am not sure how long I am going to get away with that one. My son keeps promising to come & help move it to the loft, but has let me down- Well that is the excuse I am giving & his mum lets him get away with murder, so it is working for now

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

I have found that, after dropping the sail, slightly tensioning the sheet provides a degree of friction between the hanks and the stay, allowing me to push the bulk of the sail up off the deck, so that I can pull each hank down and get a decent flake on each fold. It's then just a matter of releasing tack and clew, rolling/folding those respective ends towards the middle, and bagging it.

 

[Laminar Flow]

In order of preference:

Roll them, but do not fold the roll, is best.

Next, flake & fold them, but not (always) on the same fold.

Nylon can get stuffed.

 

[differentroads]

My 3 year old dacron staysail flakes itself quite well while lowering. I then lash it with two sailties. I've had a tubular bag made that fits over the flaked sail and the front zips up over the hanks if I'm leaving it on, or I take the hanks off the inner forestay and zip up if stowing it.

The bag is a very snug fit and getting it on at sea is like trying to put a condom on an elephant while riding a rollercoaster. But very neat and secure once its on.

It's appreciably less bulky than when I used to roll it into a sailbag and a lot easier to handle. But a proper flat flake is unbeatable for end of season storage.

 

[Neeves]

If you flake as the sail comes down, or is down, you can then detach the hanks and fold. When you come to reuse the sail you can do the same thing - in reverse. If you used sail ties when you flaked the sail these can be left attached until the sail is fully handed on allowing the sail to lie like a docile sausage on the foredeck. You can then thread the sheets through the deck cars with the sail remaining docile. WE found it better to have sheets continuously attached for each sail.

If you roll the sail or simply stuff it in a bag you need to take all the sail out of the bag and effectively lay the whole thing on the deck so as to hank it on. This may be more exciting than necessary if you have furled your 150% Genoa and are installing the jib because the wind is freshening.

If you pack in a long sausage bag you can gently fold the sausage and store loosely in the forepeak by lower as a sausage through the foredatch. It is on occasions like this, in the rain, your carpets get all wet.

Leaving the sail as loose as possible will prolong its life - so storing rolled, rather than flaked is best, no fold marks, but is unrealistic if you are long term cruising.

We have an inner forestay but the sail is very small and easy to handle. We only have one furler and regularly swap a No1 Genny and a No 3 jib, but we have lots of room on which to lay the sail and we roll it. The rolled sail has a long bag with full length zip and the sail lies rolled from fore cabin through the nav area. We try not to stand on it.

Jonathan

 

[William_H]

OP mentioned inner forestay so presumably not such a big jib. I use 4 different hank on jibs on my little boat. More often than not the jib gets stuffed through the front hatch till next time. However I then get fussy and flake the sails and bag them. Flaking is done with one person in the cabin and the other sitting in the cockpit opposite side.
The jib ends up flaked half in half out the cabin. It is then rolled up tack outside. Roll from the clew end. This way wind is not such a problem when flaking.
What is really important for a storm, jib is that it is flaked so that you drop the roll onto the deck after removing from the bag. The tack is then secured to the tack point base of the forestay. Then roll the jib back until the head emerges. Attach the halyard then proceed with the hanks from the top. Finally attach sheets or before if you wish then hoist the jib. Very simple if the jib has been flaked and rolled properly. A night mare if just stuffed in a bag. ol'will

 

[andsarkit]

My boat came with a couple of wire luff sails and the only way to bag those was to coil the wire and then roll the coil down the sausage which made quite a neat package.
The rope luff genoas were usually stuffed into the bag, head first and unclipping the hanks as it went into the bag. The sheets were detached as the clew went into the bag and the tack went in last. The sail was always under control and ready to come out of the bag in the reverse order. I thought everyone did it like that.
The sails didn't appear to suffer from that treatment but then with 5 sails to choose from, the wear was spread out and the larger sails were of much lighter sailcloth and easier to fold. Also the sails were not left up all season like a furler.
My current furler is at least twice the weight of the old genoa as it has to operate in a much wider range of wind strengths . It only comes off at the end of the season and is carefully flaked and rolled. I don't think it would be possible to stuff it into a bag as it is far too stiff.