Strobe lights- a mariners request.

[moody1]

[ QUOTE ]
I think from all this that the only sensible answers are those clearly set out in the pages of the Colregs from people who have given this deep and careful thought over many years.

It appears too that there are some people that get so paranoid nervous out there at night that perhaps should stay in harbour after dark? I will now duck.

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I can't recall seeing a lighted merchant ship at night on which I could see the red or green nav lights against the background clutter of house lighting

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I prefer to cross shipping lanes at night, because the ship's direction and angle of approach is much clearer to see than in daylight. Indeed some modern ships with forward bridges seem to create an optical illusion and in daylight can appear to go the opposite way to what they actually are. So I have little trouble differentiating ship lights at night, initially their aspect shows by the mast lights, then the port/starboard lights, and when bows on are easy to see with mast lights dead in line. Very occasionally I might use binos to pick out the red/greens and very very rarely do I get into a situation where the steamer scarer on the sails is needed. I'm not cleverer than anyone else, it is not that difficult - with practice. The ones that are difficult to determine at night are fishing boats with huge deck floods that can point every which way, which also describes their route through the water!

Still ducking.....

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Agree - so we will duck together.

 

[Conachair]

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Unfortunately there have been occasions when inquisitive masters have gone to look at just what that strange light could be, with the inevitable consequence.
If it's a light he can identify he is more likely to steer clear.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've asked this question in the past (in bars it has to be said) to 2 seperate container ships captains, both who's answers were the same (this was about when way offshore) - yes a strobe would be more likely to be noticed than tricolor and no they probably wouldn't go for a look, no time on their schedules, maybe a call on 16 but that would be it.
Completely agree about using lights as per colregs in busier areas but a few hundred miles out if I thought it would get me seen then I'm not so sure.
Anyway I don't have one so no flashing lights around me. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

 

[Sanderling_]

[ QUOTE ]
I prefer to cross shipping lanes at night, because the ship's direction and angle of approach is much clearer to see than in daylight. Indeed some modern ships with forward bridges seem to create an optical illusion and in daylight can appear to go the opposite way to what they actually are. So I have little trouble differentiating ship lights at night, initially their aspect shows by the mast lights, then the port/starboard lights, and when bows on are easy to see with mast lights dead in line. Very occasionally I might use binos to pick out the red/greens and very very rarely do I get into a situation where the steamer scarer on the sails is needed. I'm not cleverer than anyone else, it is not that difficult - with practice. The ones that are difficult to determine at night are fishing boats with huge deck floods that can point every which way, which also describes their route through the water!

Still ducking.....

[/ QUOTE ]

I would concur with that but there is one thing worse than fishing boats with deck floods and that is fishing boats with .................................................


strobe lights.

This certainly seems to be becoming much more common off the French coast and really do irritate the eyes as they go backwards and forwards for so long.

 

[capnsensible]

Wow, fantastic response, thank you all. Can I just say, as the original poster and having taken in every point that everyone has mentioned....my request is still the same, please dont use them, they are dangerous (I am at sea an awful lot and don't wish to be a Coroners witness). Many thanks and safe sailing!!

 

[Robin]

[ QUOTE ]
I would concur with that but there is one thing worse than fishing boats with deck floods and that is fishing boats with .................................................


strobe lights.

This certainly seems to be becoming much more common off the French coast and really do irritate the eyes as they go backwards and forwards for so long.


[/ QUOTE ]

We cross paths with one every year when crossng from Dartmouth to Camaret on route south, he has a yellow flashing light and operates usually in the lanes east of Ushant TSS. Last year I watched it for ages in crystal clear visibility (like 30mls) and had no idea if it was 1ml away or 10mls away. Eventually pinpointed it on radar when it was about 5mls off and we still struggled to pass clear of it, we altered course to port to pass clear well astern of him and he turned head on at us, we altered to starboard to pass him clear the other side and he turned to cross back ahead of us again. Just to be really helpful he shone a bright searchlight at us as we finally got clear of him by about half a mile the same side we had tried to pass from the first. He had so many deck floods on his array of various red and green lights were well lost, even if the yellow flashing light wasn't confusing enough. I suppose he could have turned a proper white strobe light on as well to help really confuse things... We were averaging around 8.5kts on a broad reach in F5/6 and were occasionally surfing at over 10kts even reefed, with just two of us, both with bus passes that is not a relaxed close encounter. Imagine a whole bunch of them though, all with strobes or flashing yellows!

 

[Cornishman]

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The aviation industry figured out many years ago that if you want an unexpected object to be noticed you need a flashing, rather than a steady light.

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You have missed the fact that so did IALA which is why there are so many flashing, occulting and isophase lighthouses, buoys and beacons.
For that reason alone it was decided long ago to avoid putting such lights on moving objects so that there should be no confusion. One of the reasons often given for Rule 36 is that your strobe could be misinterpreted as a North Cardinal buoy, and before you say that buoys are on the chart so there should be no confusion, let me remind you that "recent wrecks" are marked with hastily put in place cardinal buoys.

 

[jimbaerselman]

I'm still not convinced that a strobe, switched on only when required, does anything different from a bright white 'attention getting' light.

Of course, a permanently lit strobe is another thing . . . but only superior if you're not keeping a good watch.

So, is that what this thread is about? How to catch attention when your own watchkeeping is below par?

 

[Salty John]

'So, is that what this thread is about? How to catch attention when your own watchkeeping is below par?'

No, I think it's about Capnsensible's irrational fear of strobes. This is all part of his therapy, enabling him to face his phobia and deal with it.

 

[bilbobaggins]

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This is all part of his therapy

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From my point of view, I'm quite content that shipmastery types like Cap'nSenseless should be irrationally afraid of approaching any strobe lights seen at sea. That's exactly what's wanted...... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Robin]

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From my point of view, I'm quite content that shipmastery types like Cap'nSenseless should be irrationally afraid of approaching any strobe lights seen at sea. That's exactly what's wanted......


[/ QUOTE ]

Not if it is the strobe light on my lifebuoy and I was hoping someone might find me it isn't!!

The real phobia here is the one some appear to have with the dark, or at least being at sea in the dark. Maybe they might also like to broadcast all ships messages on the VHF in daylight giving their position and course and ask all to keep well clear?? Or 'Please give me a wide berth I'm a frightened yottie that has just read the Ouzo report'. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Now I really will duck!

 

[Robin2]

I read somewhere recently (PBO?) that the people who look after navigation lights are experimenting with linking series of buoys to flash in unison or in sequence to make them easier to pick out from the background lights of towns, etc.

If thought is being given to changing those lights there is surely also room to consider changing the nav lights on ships if there is a better technical solution - which is what I believe.

As far as I can see many of the posters in favour of the status quo claim that the system works very well if only the users would be prepared to apply some effort. Surely mankind's progress is the continuous replacement of effort by easier and more effective solutions.

There are plenty of other threads in these forums about poor watchkeeping on large vessels. I firmly believe that a strobe would be a big help in those situations.

 

[wotayottie]

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I think from all this that the only sensible answers are those clearly set out in the pages of the Colregs from people who have given this deep and careful thought over many years.



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Lots of sense apart from the above hilarious bit. We're talking international quangoes here. The sort that changed wiring from red = live = dangerous, or that gave us mayday for some uses and SOS for others, and French as the language for EU documents.. Its all about clash of egos, national pride, winning arguments etc.

From my experience of similar meetings, you probably wont find a sailor there. And we'd only be allowed strobes if the French manufactured them.

 

[bilbobaggins]

If a white strobe is all right for the Tardis, The Doctor and Donna.... then it's all right for me! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[jimbaerselman]

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The sort that changed wiring from red = live = dangerous

[/ QUOTE ] red . . . undistiguishable from green/brown by one in 15 males . . .

I wonder how many colour blind electrocutions had to occur before logic and statistics and quangos changed things . . .

 

[Loginname]

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Unfortunately there have been occasions when inquisitive masters have gone to look at just what that strange light could be, with the inevitable consequence.


[/ QUOTE ]

Whilst I know that that was supposed to be standard practice in the days of the Cornish Wreckers I can't say that I've read any reports in recent years that really support that arguement.....unless you know otherwise?

 

[Tidewaiter2]

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Strobes at sea is similar to the numpties who use their hazards on the motorway whenever they slow-down. I have noticed that it is only the cars that are travelling at excess speed and have to break violently who use them to indicate that they are slowing down.

The highway code states quite clearly that hazard warning lights are only to be used at the scene or an accident or breakdown.

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As a numpty who drives far too fast on motorways I use my brake lights to inform the car behind that I am slowing down and my hazard lights to inform the car behind that I am slowing down far faster than he expects.

This is so that the terribly sensible person behind me does not slam into my stationary car because he was driving well inside the speed limit but did not expect to find a stationary car in front of him.

ESAD

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If you drive HGV's and Tow Rigs, esp on the M's, you quickly learn that the artic up in front of you ain't a numpty when his hazards go on with his brakes, he's warning you and all the other blokes that need time to to stop safely that your lane has come to a violent stop, so try and stop before some dozy car driver changes into your lane, 2m in front of you off your bumper and expects you to stop 7.5 ton or more on sixpence in the pouring rain without squashing him flat, so he can nip two spaces up the queues in the two overtaking lanes.
(The lanes violent stop is usually, as 5 weeks ago on M23 because some ex-Dynamic Marketing Thrusting Executive has managed to insert his BMW under a horse box between the axles at 90 degrees to the correct line of travel of the traffic. Good news- the horse was ok, bad news- I did say "ex" above) /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[maxi77]

I must admit I have thought of fitting some form of strobe light as a last ditch thing, but when you think about it a powerful torch flashed across the bridge windows is as good.

The reality is as ever if you depend on some one else missing you you will eventually be disappointed and sunk. Take responsibility for your own safety and avoid getting into the situation where you need their help to stay safe. You may not be 100% suyccessful in this but you will at least be far better prepared for the close encounter, and thus more likely to survive.

 

[Robin2]

There is one enormous difference between a strobe and a torch.

You can use a torch to make yourself visible to a boat that you are already aware of.

On the other hand, the purpose of a strobe is to catch the attention of someone you are not aware of and who may not be expecting another boat in his/her area of the sea and may not be keeping a very vigilant watch. A strobe is something you see even when you are not looking for it - that's how our brains work.

Bear in mind, also, that the danger for a yacht may come from behind. I doubt if any of us is as meticulous at looking astern as we are at looking ahead.

 

[Loginname]

Possibly, but I think the consensus here is that a strobe would only be used when a potential collision may be occurring; i.e. as an emergency procedure for a short time only.

I don't think that anyone has suggested that a strobe should be left on for any length of time. In that case everyone is agreed that normal nav. lights should be used.

I agree though that a flashing light is more likely to be seen; but I have seen no real evidence to support that assumption.

I can't speak for others, but I certainly take great care to keep a lookout all round; astern and ahead and to either side, and under the genoa, and near (pot lines) and far, and up (weather) and down (phosphoresence; I love to see it). /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[maxi77]

I certainly was not meaning a normal handheld torch, rather the modern equivalents of the old 6" aldis lamps they had when I first started sailing. Sweepng the bridge with one of these will alert any one there (remember a commercial watckeeper will not spend his whole watch either on the bridge or more importantly from our point of view looking out of his bridge windows.

As for the "all round lookout" perhaps being trained to do this as a matter of course whilst I was young and impresionable and immediately evaluating the potential risk of any contact sighted means this comes more naturaly to such as myself. The reality though is that if you wish to remain safe the "all round lookout" is your best friend and it you do find yourself neglecting the stern arcs you do need to change your habits or perhaps pay the price.

At the end of the day there is only one person who can ensure your safety, you!