Strait of Messina

[Nostrodamus]

Been through loads of times, in daylight, at night and once during a huge storm, always stick very close to the mainland side, never worried about or been bothered by the current, seen the *******i - nasty if you were under sail in a light wind!

Just at dawn it must get cheaper or have lower pilotage requirements for ships, they hang about outside till daybreak, then its like the Wacky Races - I once saw a tanker, a container ship, a ferry and a large fishing boat all going abreast through the narrow bit (only 1 mile wide) - the ferry won.

Report to the authorities, really? there is no requirement for a small boat to even have a radio, so it is rather unlikely.

But I do agree that you have to watch out for Beppo floating about in a tiny boat hoping to catch a sprat.

Bill, I admire sailors like you who don't seem to get bothered or phased by anything. Personally I do so I like to be aware of what I am going into and I do get worried by the sea and the effects it can have. Certainly the current swung our ground track all over and within the space of 400m we changed speed from 7.5 over the ground to less than a knot. A couple we were talking to had tried three times to go through at the wrong time. Twice they went back as they were going back against the current.

It was funny yesterday to hear the VTS giving a Turkish warship a rollocking for not reporting to them.

 

[Nostrodamus]

Hi Nostro, yes we anchored at Taormina in 7-8m fairly close in to the beach. We arrived a NE 4-5 and tucked in around the corner, apparently there can be significant swell at times in Taormina presumably when the wind is E-S somewhere nearby. Somewhat farther on is Catania where apparently you can anchor inside the mole in a currently undeveloped area, check it out on Google maps. We're still in Siracusa so maybe see you in a day or three.

Remember the mooring bouys at Taormina are NOT free, theres a link from JimBs site, but they are in the most protected area.

When we left the straits the wind was 20 knots with a bit of a swell. Within a couple of miles it dropped to 2 knots and the sea was flat calm. Apparently this is quiet common and people have waited in Reggio for days listening to the wind howling when a short distance down there is nothing.

We are anchored next to the beach in Taormina. It is sand and good holding. Spectacular town on top of the cliffs. George who looks after the buoys came out to us. He spoke English with a rather posh accent and told us we could have a buoy for 40 euros a night or anchor. He even told us the best place to anchor in the sand rather than too near the buoys which is a rocky bottom. Although there is no wind there is a slight rolly swell but I imagine this bay can be untenable in the merest hint of the wrong wind

 

[jimbaerselman]

Report to the authorities, really? there is no requirement for a small boat to even have a radio, so it is rather unlikely.

Bill,
Like many TSS, there are areas set aside for smaller vessels, and areas where reporting is compulsory. I quote from the introduction to this areas regulations:
[the square bracket parts are clarifications sent in reply to my queries about their phrases used]

Therefore, in light of the provisions relating to monitoring vessel traffic in the MD October 2, 2008 (establishment VTS area of the Strait of Messina), the DM 08.05.1985 and D. Decree Law of 19.08.2005 No. 196 "Implementation of Directive 2002/59/EC establishing a Community system of monitoring and information system for maritime traffic", the naval units [ships and boats] which are subject to minimum participation in the system are:
• All passenger ships;
• merchant ships over 300 GRT;
• fishing vessels exceeding 45 meters;
• recreational craft over 45 meters.

Naval units [Ships and Boats] excluded by the application of Legislative Decree 196/2005 (Directive 2002/59/EC) are:
• warships;
• ships, naval auxiliaries;
• ships owned or operated by a Member State and used for non commercial public service;
• fishing vessels with a length of less than 45 meters;
• Recreational craft with a length of less than 45 meters;

The aforesaid vessels while transiting VTS area of Messina may voluntarily require the help of VTS centre of Messina [choose to enter the controlled traffic areas] and in such case have to necessarily apply to the rules described in this manual.

Should those vessels voluntarily require to participate into the system they will be considered as taking part to it. The possibility of participation by those vessels becomes compulsory in order not to interfere with the participating vessels. In this circumstance they will be treated as participating units, until they are out from the monitored vessel traffic. In that case the operator will request the information required to the vessels involved (vessel data, cargo and course).

Should a vessel, not participating to VTS system, enter or leave from Reggio Calabria Harbour, Messina, Villa San Giovanni and Tremestieri, she will have to inform it in advance to the aforesaid Maritime Authorities

The "rules in this manual" (my link in an earlier post) include compulsory radio reporting. The implication is that boats without radio must not enter . . .

As Tony has mentioned, all this was researched for the Cruising Association many months ago, following the report of some fines being applied.

 

[pelissima]

Do I assume correctly in that 'areas set aside for smaller vessels' lie between the border of the lane and the land? at places as narrow as 0.15 of a mile ?

 

[Zen Zero]

Bill,
Like many TSS, there are areas set aside for smaller vessels, and areas where reporting is compulsory. I quote from the introduction to this areas regulations:
[the square bracket parts are clarifications sent in reply to my queries about their phrases used]



The "rules in this manual" (my link in an earlier post) include compulsory radio reporting. The implication is that boats without radio must not enter . . .

As Tony has mentioned, all this was researched for the Cruising Association many months ago, following the report of some fines being applied.

That's what I have always thought. I've been through both ways, sticking close to the Calabria side without advising anyone or having anyone show any interest in us. Once radioed the Capitaneria at Reggio asking for directions to Lega Navale pontoon, no answer, but guys on fuel quay pointed it out to us having heard the call on the radio - they told us everyone keeps themself to themself in Reggio Calabria, hence no answer on the radio.

Membership of Lega Navale (Italian equivalent of RYA ) comes in very handy in the deep south, they have their own pontoons, clubhouses and showers, where the local boaty people hang out. You can always ask where the pontoon is without actually lying about being a member, or pretend you thought your home club had a reciprocal arrangement - I happen to be a member, but I can't imagine anyone being turned away if there is space.

I'll check on the Italian forum about obligatory VTS reporting and report back.

 

[sailaboutvic]

We gone though a few times over the years and never called up but last year we did , manly because we was cruising with friends and they called , so we did too , after about 30 question we was just left in the dark what to do , do we call again later or not , we decided not to , we didn't enter the lanes and kept close to the Sicily , no body approached us , at the time there was local boats , motor boats about and fishing boat and no one seen to be call up other then two larges yachts and ships , not sure if I bother to call up next time we go thought as long as we don't enter the shipping lanes , unless we hear other wise that the rules have change .

www.bluewatersailor5.webs.com

 

[Noahsdad]

A mate went through last week, no call made or received.
No problem.

 

[RobbieW]

Having chatted to a CA member the other day, I understand that a yottie was prosecuted and heavily fined recently for sailing the wrong way up one of the lanes in the Messina TSS. That has also happened more than once in Dover Strait, basic TSS rules are the same the world over - break them at your peril.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Having chatted to a CA member the other day, I understand that a yottie was prosecuted and heavily fined recently for sailing the wrong way up one of the lanes in the Messina TSS. That has also happened more than once in Dover Strait, basic TSS rules are the same the world over - break them at your peril.

Gold star for this man , your quite right in what you said .
the CA has reported this to it members , who have now pulled it and pushed it every way posable , but what they haven't reported is why was the guy stop and fined ? My guess is he was braking the rules , in side the lanes , crossing them or going the wrong way , if he was out side the lanes I can't see any problem or why he would be fined , just the same if you was sailing along the Dover coast .

Do anyone know the truth behind this story?

www.bluewatersailor5.webs.com

 

[Tony Cross]

Gold star for this man , your quite right in what you said .
the CA has reported this to it members , who have now pulled it and pushed it every way posable , but what they haven't reported is why was the guy stop and fined ? My guess is he was braking the rules , in side the lanes , crossing them or going the wrong way , if he was out side the lanes I can't see any problem or why he would be fined , just the same if you was sailing along the Dover coast .

Do anyone know the truth behind this story?

www.bluewatersailor5.webs.com

Sorry to rain on your parade, but the CA did report the reason for the fine. The following is taken from the CA forum report (I've removed the name of the yacht and owners, but it wasn't the one you linked to).

The owners of s/y ****, * & *, said that the reason for the fine is because they did not alert Messina Strait Traffic Control.

What the CA actually did was to locate the relevant Italian legislation which turned out, not surprisingly, to be rather vague on the issue and open to some interpretation. The CA's advice to it's members was (and still is) to report to Messina Traffic Control, it costs nothing but a few minutes of your time and it could potentially save you a large fine.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Sorry to rain on your parade, but the CA did report the reason for the fine. The following is taken from the CA forum report (I've removed the name of the yacht and owners, but it wasn't the one you linked to).



What the CA actually did was to locate the relevant Italian legislation which turned out, not surprisingly, to be rather vague on the issue and open to some interpretation. The CA's advice to it's members was (and still is) to report to Messina Traffic Control, it costs nothing but a few minutes of your time and it could potentially save you a large fine.

Your haven't rained my parade tony , still the quote you have just quoted that the CA quote don't not tell us any thing , the question i asked was do anyone know why he was fined , was he interfering with the lanes or was he sailing half a mile of the shore ?
If he was sailing in the lanes then he got what he deserve , there no reason at all to sail in the lanes there , if you want to cross over then wait till your well away from the lanes , you only need to plain ahead . For god sake .
Yes I agree it cost nothing to call them up , I not disputing that .
But That a very busy part and on any one summer day I guess they have their hands full , with out people calling then if they don't have too .
if you don't have to call them up when your sailing just off shore and well away from the lanes why make more work for them ?

www.bluewatersailor5.webs.com

 

[Tony Cross]

Your haven't rained my parade tony , still the quote you have just quoted that the CA quote don't not tell us any thing , the question i asked was do anyone know why he was fined , was he interfering with the lanes or was he sailing half a mile of the shore ?
If he was sailing in the lanes then he got what he deserve , there no reason at all to sail in the lanes there , if you want to cross over then wait till your well away from the lanes , you only need to plain ahead . For god sake .
Yes I agree it cost nothing to call them up , I not disputing that .
But That a very busy part and on any one summer day I guess they have their hands full , with out people calling then if they don't have too .
if you don't have to call them up when your sailing just off shore and well away from the lanes why make more work for them ?

www.bluewatersailor5.webs.com

I don't see how "because they did not alert Messina Strait Traffic Control" could be any clearer? It fully answers the question you asked.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I don't see how "because they did not alert Messina Strait Traffic Control" could be any clearer? It fully answers the question you asked.

no the question I ask was " was he inside the lanes , going the wrong way or crossing them the lanes in other words , interfere with the flow of the traffic "
maybe I didn't make it clear the first time , hopefully I have made it clear now .
yes I know he got fine for not calling them up . but where was he at the time ? was he motoring or sailing just of the coast or was he in the lanes , the reason why I ask the question in the first place is for every one benefit , if he was away from the lanes it throw a very different light to the story and in that case the message is clear for all of us we need to radio in no matter where there are in the strait .
only guessing here but I bet he was interfering with the lanes in some ways .


www.bluewatersailor5.webs.com

 

[sailaboutvic]

OK so I am bored , waiting for a weather window.

Has quoted by someone else

“What the CA actually did was to locate the relevant Italian legislation which turned out, not surprisingly, to be rather vague on the issue and open to some interpretation.”

Well I don’t have a degree in law to be honestly I don’t have a degree in much, but even I can understand the rule here.

First part.

The Strait of Messina is implementing a regime of "non-suspendable
In offensive passage" as provided for in Articles. 38 and 45 of the 1982 United Nations Convention on
the Law of the Sea. Therefore, in light of the provisions relating to monitoring vessel traffic in the MD October 2, 2008 (establishment VTS area of the Strait of Messina),
the DM 08.05.1985 and D. Decree Law of 19.08.2005 No. 196 "Implementation of Directive 2002/59/EC establishing a Community system of monitoring and information
System for maritime traffic", the naval units which are subject to minimum participation in the system are:
• All passenger ships;
• merchant ships over 300 GRT;
• fishing vessels exceeding 45 meters;
• recreational craft over 45 meters.

Now the important part that apply to most of us .

Naval units, excluded by the application of Legislative Decree 196/2005 (Directive 2002/59/EC) are:
• warships;
• ships, naval auxiliaries;
• ships owned or operated by a Member State and used for non commercial public service;
• fishing vessels with a length of less than 45 meters;
• Recreational craft with a length of less than 45 meters;

It goes on to say “The aforesaid vessels while transiting VTS area of Messina may
Voluntarily “ and on and on and on

As I said before, where was this yacht to end up being fine for not calling them up? Or is it the case he wasn’t fined for not calling up but for breaking the rules in other ways .

www.bluewatersailor5.webs.com

PS this info is free no membership required .
OH look the winds turning .

 

[Tony Cross]

no the question I ask was " was he inside the lanes , going the wrong way or crossing them the lanes in other words , interfere with the flow of the traffic "
maybe I didn't make it clear the first time , hopefully I have made it clear now .
yes I know he got fine for not calling them up . but where was he at the time ? was he motoring or sailing just of the coast or was he in the lanes , the reason why I ask the question in the first place is for every one benefit , if he was away from the lanes it throw a very different light to the story and in that case the message is clear for all of us we need to radio in no matter where there are in the strait .
only guessing here but I bet he was interfering with the lanes in some ways .


www.bluewatersailor5.webs.com

Ok, now at least I see what you're getting at. I've gone back to the CA forum thread on this (it was several months ago) and from there located a (non-CA hosted) copy of the original report by the yacht that was fined, you can find it at http://www.noonsite.com/Countries/Italy/the-strait-of-messina-incident-with-the-coast-guard. You'll see in the report (the second entry there) and they were fined for entering the VTS zone without having reported to VTS control.

However, the relevant Italian document that the CA identified (dated 2009) and available at http://www.luisesicily.com/images/stories/pdf-logo-main_full.jpg says

The aforesaid vessels while transiting VTS area of Messina may voluntarily require the help of VTS centre of Messina and in such case have to necessarily apply to the rules described in this manual.

and

Voluntary participation of vessels into the system do not exclude the Master to report to MESSINA VTS, as Maritime Authority, all information required by VTS operators nor maritime safety information broadcasted by VTS centre as regarding safety of navigation or to prevent collision at sea or any other activity against national or international rules.

Whilst this seems to suggest that the reporting to Messina VTS only applies if you enter the traffic separation zones, the second bit (the "do not") was sufficiently vague to make reporting advisable whether or not you enter the zones.

There is another document that appears to supersede the one above (though it doesn't say anywhere in this second document that it does supersede the earlier one). I haven't been able to locate a source for this document outside the copy on the CA members-only website (the external link that was provided in the CA forum thread no longer works). However whilst no mention of mandatory reporting to Messina VTS is made in this document it does state..

a need to keep a listening watch on Ch16 and 10 (Messina VTS) and "to communicate their position if requested".

Although no CA members have reported being fined, or even threatened with fines, there does appear to be a grey area that small vessels outside the VTS could fall into. And as I said, it takes so little of your time to report in and the fines are sufficiently large, that it's probably wise to call them.

Oh, and you posted your last post whilst I was writing this one, that's why I've repeated some of what you said.

Edit: Lots of information is free, the problem is finding it and analysing it. You are clearly determined that CA membership is a waste of your time and money. You are of course perfectly entitled to your view. I and several thousand other CA members don't agree with you.

 

[Roberto]

no the question I ask was " was he inside the lanes , going the wrong way or crossing them the lanes in other words , interfere with the flow of the traffic "

+1

There are two distinct areas: one is the TSS traffic separation scheme, which is marked in magenta on the charts and yellow on this image which should be treated as any other TSS, a second bigger area is the VTS area, which includes all the sea around the strait (thus including the inshore traffic area).

The rules are for units participating in the VTS, hence which may be located well outside the TSS lanes.

Until 2012, if a pleasure vessel for example interfered with a passenger vessel (that is a participating unit) in the inshore area, outside of the TSS lanes, it would have been automatically considered a participating unit hence liable to all the relevant obligations.
Suppose one sailboat causes a ferry to change course in the inshore traffic area, the ferry radioes the VTS control, the VTS control boat arrives on scene with blue flashing lights and -legally- levies a fine...


However, there is a newer 2013 edition of the "Messina User manual" than the 2009 one posted before, in particular the 2009 rule worded something like "Any non-participating unit interfering with a participating one shall be considered a participating one" has been scrapped from the text.

Sorry I could not find the English edition, (if it exists)
http://www.guardiacostiera.it/servizi/documents/manualivts/manualeutenteMessina.pdf

Following the 2013 document, a pleasure vessel under 45M may voluntarily participate in the VTS, but it is not automatically considered participating if it interferes with participating traffic.
All the other navigation rules (in particula re: the TSS) of course remain valid.

 

[Nostrodamus]

It took us 20 seconds to pass all the information I needed to when we went through. They were able to follow us. At one point (where the ferries go into their docks) we were only just doing a knot. I had to go very close to the VTS to give way to an incoming ferry. The current also takes you backwards. I was greatful someone was watching me or if I had called up because of troubles in the strait they had my information. They were very polite and knew I would not be going into the VTS and even advised me to keep about 500m from the shore.
Takes 20 seconds and could save you a fine or even help you if you got into trouble.
The VTS is not long so it becomes a no brainer...

 

[Tony Cross]

Roberto, thank you for making clear the difference between VTS and TSS, I hadn't realised that.

 

[Roberto]

Just to make it clearer, this is from the 2009 VTS User Manual, I think the red boxed part has been badly translated

the 2009 Italian text states :"Le unità navali che richiedono facoltativamente la fornitura dei servizi forniti dal Centro VTS dello Stretto, sono trattate come unità partecipanti a tutti gli effetti e devono necessariamente attenersi alle procedure di partecipazione descritte nel presente manuale. La facoltà di partecipazione, da parte delle stesse, diventa obbligo qualora dovessero interferire con il traffico delle navi partecipanti.
In tale circostanza verranno trattate come unità partecipanti finché non saranno in franchigia dal traffico monitorato. Altresì, saranno contattate dal Centro VTS che provvederà a richiedere i dati previsti per le navi partecipanti (dati nave, carico e destinazione)."

The bold words clearly indicate "Should any non-participating unit interfere with course/speed of a participating vessel, the former will automatically be considered a participating one", hence all the obligations etc etc.
This was valid anywhere inside the VTS (the "big" area)


There is a 2012 Edition of the User manual which shows the same text, though the relevant paragraph has disappeared from the 2013 version (copy from the link I posted above):

Basically, the participation in the VTS for pleasure vessels <45m is now on a fully voluntary basis, there are no behaviours that can automatically change the status of a unit.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Roberto you quite right and it the same doc I seen . There are two areas involved here .

The way that doc is worded , I read it to say if you so much as call them up and ask for the time of day then you too are a participating vessel . Until you do that you are not part of the scheme . Although
All the collision rules apply as they alway do . And keeping out of the way of a VCD is one of them .
Nost.... It take a lot longer then 20 second I know we done it . If it took you 20 seconds then they didn't ask you any thing like they asked us .
But I not disputing we shouldn't call up Or not , I was trying to get to the bottom why this yacht got fine , there a lot more to it then we all know
.
Going a step backwards , the first I read about it was on Noonsite a great site and another one is jimB folks by the way ,anyway then about a month late a friend who a member of the CA told me about the report they have given out. Any way I just gone back to Noonsite to read the report again . Which i should had done before coming on here , And my question have been answered , the reason he was stop and fine was because he crossed the lanes without calling up it say in his report that they crossed the VTS but it look to me what they cross is the TSS . Now that a different kettle of fish .

Tony

Just for the records , I don't think the CA is a waste of time but for what they can offer me I not willing to pay well over 100 pounds , we need to,stop coming to blows over the CA .

www.bluewatersailor5.webs.com