Storm jib advice needed

[petery]

Went out today and came back early .. and my thoughts turned to a storm jib.
I have an elderley Vancouver 27 cutter. Can you suggest the size of storm jib I require. As per 'Heavy Weather Sailing' I plan to fly it from the inner forestay. Any comments?

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Quick phone call to a sailmaker or Northshore should get you chapter and verse.

 

[david_e]

November PBO, page 46.

 

[Roberto]

The ORC gives a MAX size for the storm jib <= 5% of I squared, but for the average boat one should consider between 50 and 70% of that area, roughly 2.5/3.5% of I squared.

 

[Spacewaist]

Id recommend the inner forestay route. I had cause to use mine in earnest last year on the way back from the Azores. I had had three reefs in the main and a couple of rolls out on the roller furl genoa in 40 knots which felt very precarious - in danger of broaching.

As soon as the heavy weather jib was set, the centre of effort was further back and much lower down on the deck - the boat was much more stable. Kept this rig on a broad reach for about 3 days until I rounded the Lizard. Magic!

If youve not got an inner forestay rigged already have a word with a good rigger. I have to have running backstays rigged to support the mast when using mine.

 

[alex_rogers]

The Vancouver 28 sail plan recommends 44 sq.ft. This is relatively small and well made sails at this size with leather hanks etc. cost about £150-£200. A lot of people recommend high visibility orange but I think you're more likely to get it out of the bag and use it earlier if it doesn't have this 'emergency' stigma.

This summer we sailed the last half of a trip back from Alderney in a solid F7 with three reefs and the storm jib. She felt very comfortable like this and if anything, we probably had too little sail up. The difference between two reefs with staysail and three reefs with storm jib is quite significant

 

[Gunfleet]

If you've used the inner forestay in storm conditions, how did you attach it? That's what bothers me. Mine has a pin with a drop nose and then a lever to tension. All very well, but I can only just about work it in a marina. Bobbing around Biscay? No chance. Is there a better method?
John

 

[Spacewaist]

Storm Jibs

Mine is a standard Hallberg Rassey fitting. A snap shackle type arrangement which puts on some tension which can if necessary be tightened using a spanner on a nut with a PTFE bearing. However, you generally dont need much tension unless you are trying to sail up wind and want to prevent sag. I dont sail to weather by choice and wouldnt think about it in anything like those conditions so tension is not a real necessity.

The inner forestay does not hinder manouverability and she will tack easily provided there are a few rolls in the genoa so there's no excuse for not being prepared in my case. In fact on that occassion I had had a couple of days' notice of the depression and so erected the inner forestay (with plenty of tension) when conditions were more benign.

 

[Twister_Ken]

It's not easy. Two things that help (in my case at least). Put a light lanyard on the bottom end of the inner f/stay so that you can tie it off somewhere handy when you're on the foredeck - otherwise you're trying to rig the highfield lever with two hands, hold yourself on with one hand, and hold onto the forestay with another hand.

Secondly, heave-to while you do it. The foredeck will still be bouncing all over the shop, but there'll be less crashing and banging, you'll be in the lee of the backed jib, and the foredeck won't be swept by waves every few seconds.

Better still, buy a working jib.Then you can rig the inner f/stay while things are still relatively sane. Then roll away the big genoa (which in my case is pretty useless upwind when rolled down to about a number 3 equivalent) and hoist the w.j. on the detachable f/stay. Then, if things get worse, it's just (huh!) a question of hanking on the s.j., dropping the w.j., switching the sheets and halyard, hoisting the s.j. and getting the w.j. off the deck.

And we do this for fun and relaxation?

 

[Gunfleet]

Good advice Ken. It's the drop nose pin that drives me crackers. I can't get the wretched thing to move without using two hands. There must be a better arrangement!

 

[Celena]

Just obtained a quote for CELENA from Arun (Northshore sailmakers):

30 square feet = £115 + VAT, (Dayglo = £138 + Vat)

 

[jimi]

I'd definitely go for a Dayglo colour, its one hell of a lot more visible!

 

[Celena]

A report I read recently suggest if you want to be seen by big ship skippers then orange is the way to go as they won't see you with radar when it's rough, reflector or not. Eyeball is your only chance - and they're more likely to be looking when it's rough. Orange dodgers were recommended too!

 

[Roberto]

Also, some storm sails are fitted with a metallic (Al?) foil sewn between reinforcement patches, has anyone tried it? just to know if radar visibility really improves or not..

 

[petery]

I will contact Arun and Northshore when I order - got the boat from one and new sails from the other -, but it's useful to have some comments and advice from those who have used them 'in anger'!!

 

[Twister_Ken]

My experience with storm sails is, fortunately, somewhat limited. I have seen and used a storm jib that looked too big, but never one that looked too small!

 

[incognito]

Just dug out the spec for my storm jib (36ft boat):

indestructible storm jib in high vis orange 11oz,with
Kevlar webbing luff,suitably reinforced with
Rutgertson pressed eyes and webbing reinforcing at
chafe points .Stainless steel wichard one handed hanks
fitted to luff along with spare luff eyes for
alternative lacing .All treble stitched with 207 size
polyester thread. Kevlar webbing luff continued up and down
to provide pennant for head and
tack.Seam coated in chafe areas.

Missing from the above are the dimensions:
94 sq.ft. dimensions luff 22', leach 17'6", foot 11'.

 

[Roberto]

Thanks incognito, I am interested would you mind adding a few comments please, similar size boat

1. 11oz cloth seems ok, but I once had to deal with a 11oz trysail and it was as stiff as cardboard, very difficult to put in the groove, isn't it too difficult to bring forward roughly 10sqm of cloth you can barely fold to the size of a "normal" mainsail bag? One other I tried 9-9.2oz, although on paper not too different, was surprisingly more easily folded/handled

2. Are there any instances when 95sqft have proved too much? Looks a lot for a storm jib... Mind I have a genoa 4 not much larger than that and it keeps the bulwark constantly under water from 40kt

thanks

 

[incognito]

Have hardly had to use it (twice). Found it OK in F8/9, never hit more than that. So I am not calling on great experience. Main and Genoa = 700sq ft. Main with 3 reefs is about the same as the storm jib (ie about 94sq ft).

The kevlar tape luff means it folds in the luff OK, where a wire luff can really be a pain. Never having had another storm jib to compare it against, I can't say if it is better/worse/more manageable... I agree that it is a bit of a handful, I put it in the bag like a spinny, with all three corners available when bag is snugged up tightly, then, drawing the head pennant out, start putting hanks on, these hanks are dead easy to use, one handed. The sail was more expensive than others have mentioned here, it came out around £500 incl. VAT. I had other cheaper quotes, but went with my local sailmaker, cos local.

Like others, I have a removable inner forestay, with about 2ft clearance to the rolledup genoa. I haven't done so, but always intend to put the sail on, hanks and all when in port - in anticipation. Trouble is, the two times I have needed it, the weather was a tad more than the forecast!!

I put it on both times honking with seasickness. The foredeck is NOT the place to do it. Yes, as someone else suggested, best to do it hove-to.

 

[Roberto]

thank you vm! (nm)

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