Steelboats

[SlowlyButSurely]

Dunning-Kruger effect in full colour.

How so?

 

[SlowlyButSurely]

Dunning-Kruger effect in full colour.

Just fathomed it out. I believe you are implying that those that know the least about steel boats are the most critical.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Just fathomed it out. I believe you are implying that those that know the least about steel boats are the most critical.

Dunning-Kruger says that lack of knowledge or skill is associated with an inability to recognize that knowledge or skill. So, for example, people with poor senses of humour can't tell if a joke is funny (that one is in the original paper) and bad drivers generally think they are good drivers.

In the current instance it means that a self-taught backyard bodger is unlikely to recognise the limitations of self-taught backyard bodging.

Like much of psychology, Dunning-Kruger is really a statement of the plain bleedin' obvious, but it encapsulates a concept nicely.

 

[SlowlyButSurely]

Dunning-Kruger says that lack of knowledge or skill is associated with an inability to recognize that knowledge or skill. So, for example, people with poor senses of humour can't tell if a joke is funny (that one is in the original paper) and bad drivers generally think they are good drivers.

In the current instance it means that a self-taught backyard bodger is unlikely to recognise the limitations of self-taught backyard bodging.

Like much of psychology, Dunning-Kruger is really a statement of the plain bleedin' obvious, but it encapsulates a concept nicely.

At the other end of the scale it also shows that geniuses recognize their own talent.

 

[bbg]

At the other end of the scale it also shows that geniuses recognize their own talent.

Not really. At one end of the scale, incapable people overestimate their abilities.

At the other end, very capable people underestimate their abilities. They recognise the limitations of their knowledge.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

The paradox of fools and wise men.

The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. - Bertrand Russell

The Dunning-Kruger effect is the explanation for Russells observation.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/head-in-the-cloud/201701/the-dunning-kruger-president

 

[SlowlyButSurely]

Not really. At one end of the scale, incapable people overestimate their abilities.

At the other end, very capable people underestimate their abilities. They recognise the limitations of their knowledge.

So which end is Brent.

 

[Moderator]

You are all reminded that personal attacks, however subtle, are not looked on favourably by Admin and Mods.

Please take care unless you want to be beached.

Mod (with finger poised above the red button)

 

[rotrax]

So which end is Brent.

I am not sure he is actually involved in a Dunning-Kruger effect.

He has developed an inexpensive method of boatbuilding in steel which suits some impecunious sailors.
His designs look OK, when built to a good standard they appear safe and strong. As he insists on telling us, again and again, they are eminently suitable for a long term liveaboard life in out of the way places. Few argue with this conclusion.

What he is totally incapable of understanding is that 99.9% of those involved in sailing are supremely indifferent to this.

His continual beating of the same old tune on the same old drum is, IMHO, counter productive.

It puts some who might be interested off, through lack of fact and important stuff like stability curves.

When I said his intelligence was so low he could not recognise this, I had no idea where it would lead.

Frankly, I am amazed at the depth of expertese and knowlege on these pages...........................

 

[SlowlyButSurely]

I am not sure he is actually involved in a Dunning-Kruger effect.

He has developed an inexpensive method of boatbuilding in steel which suits some impecunious sailors.
His designs look OK, when built to a good standard they appear safe and strong. As he insists on telling us, again and again, they are eminently suitable for a long term liveaboard life in out of the way places. Few argue with this conclusion.

What he is totally incapable of understanding is that 99.9% of those involved in sailing are supremely indifferent to this.

His continual beating of the same old tune on the same old drum is, IMHO, counter productive.

It puts some who might be interested off, through lack of fact and important stuff like stability curves.

When I said his intelligence was so low he could not recognise this, I had no idea where it would lead.

Frankly, I am amazed at the depth of expertese and knowlege on these pages...........................

I agree, he has developed a very interesting building method. Does it really matter that he is a strong advocate for his own boats? There's a raft of information on the internet about origami boats. Surely anyone with a genuine interest can make their own mind up without being critical on here.

 

[newtothis]

I agree, he has developed a very interesting building method. Does it really matter that he is a strong advocate for his own boats? There's a raft of information on the internet about origami boats. Surely anyone with a genuine interest can make their own mind up without being critical on here.

He's not a strong advocate of his own boats. He is an obnoxious critic of everyone else's boats.

 

[rotrax]

He's not a strong advocate of his own boats. He is an obnoxious critic of everyone else's boats.

And there, short and sweet, you have it!

 

[Brent Swain]

I agree, he has developed a very interesting building method. Does it really matter that he is a strong advocate for his own boats? There's a raft of information on the internet about origami boats. Surely anyone with a genuine interest can make their own mind up without being critical on here.

If I believed doing it the other way is better, don't you think I would be building them that way?
If I have seen disasters in commercially made boats , you say "shame on me for warning people ,of things they are doing wrong"?
Maybe your values ; not mine!

 

[Brent Swain]

I am not sure he is actually involved in a Dunning-Kruger effect.

He has developed an inexpensive method of boatbuilding in steel which suits some impecunious sailors.
His designs look OK, when built to a good standard they appear safe and strong. As he insists on telling us, again and again, they are eminently suitable for a long term liveaboard life in out of the way places. Few argue with this conclusion.

What he is totally incapable of understanding is that 99.9% of those involved in sailing are supremely indifferent to this.

His continual beating of the same old tune on the same old drum is, IMHO, counter productive.

It puts some who might be interested off, through lack of fact and important stuff like stability curves.

When I said his intelligence was so low he could not recognise this, I had no idea where it would lead.

Frankly, I am amazed at the depth of expertese and knowlege on these pages...........................

If you are indifferent, and have no interest ,they why do you come here to troll? Leave the site to those who have an interest.

 

[rotrax]

If you are indifferent, and have no interest ,they why do you come here to troll? Leave the site to those who have an interest.

But I do have an interest. I am a steel boat owner.

Unlike you, I am not blind to the advantages of other materials for boatbuilding.

Unlike you I dont dog off other sailors choice of boatbuilding materials, I dont call occaisional sailors Marina Queens and I dont call well made substantial vessels constructed from GRP plastic boats.

All of the above causes myself and others on this site to become pissed off with your sanctimonious self interest.

You appear to be the Troll Brent, not I.

 

[NormanS]

But I do have an interest. I am a steel boat owner.

Unlike you, I am not blind to the advantages of other materials for boatbuilding.

Unlike you I dont dog off other sailors choice of boatbuilding materials, I dont call occaisional sailors Marina Queens and I dont call well made substantial vessels constructed from GRP plastic boats.

All of the above causes myself and others on this site to become pissed off with your sanctimonious self interest.

You appear to be the Troll Brent, not I.

Hook, line, and sinker. Why not just let it rest? I think we can take it that the two of you will never be in wholehearted agreement

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Hook, line, and sinker. Why not just let it rest? I think we can take it that the two of you will never be in wholehearted agreement

Yep, it was a case of leaving sleeping dogs lie.

 

[Bajansailor]

It is a shame that Rotrax and Brent are so far apart - if we could only bring them together for a chat over a few beers I am sure that they would become best mates in real life.

 

[Brent Swain]

But I do have an interest. I am a steel boat owner.

Unlike you, I am not blind to the advantages of other materials for boatbuilding.

Unlike you I dont dog off other sailors choice of boatbuilding materials, I dont call occaisional sailors Marina Queens and I dont call well made substantial vessels constructed from GRP plastic boats.

All of the above causes myself and others on this site to become pissed off with your sanctimonious self interest.

You appear to be the Troll Brent, not I.

Nor am I. I have often said that plastic boats are ideal for what they are used for 95% of the time, the odd weekend cruise and the odd summer holiday. GRP stands for "Glass Reinforced PLASTIC!"
Why? What did you think the P in GRP stands for?
Marina Queen is the name of boats which rarely leave the marina , a completely different set of priorities from a full time cruiser. A friend said he has seen boats in a nearby marina change hands six times, without leaving the marina. Ideal for that is a completely different set of priorities from a full time, liveaboard cruiser.

 

[Brent Swain]

It is a shame that Rotrax and Brent are so far apart - if we could only bring them together for a chat over a few beers I am sure that they would become best mates in real life.

No doubt. Left New Zealand decades ago, very happy to leave. Would buy him a beer, if he came here. Aint going there any more.