Starter Yachts

[bendyone]

QUOTE The plywood boats of the 60s and 70s seem to have disappeared almost entirely. I can't remember when I last saw a Robert Tucker design - Silhouette, Ballerina, whatever - afloat. END QOUTE

Dont tell Sixpence

 

[Malabar]

If we are talking new construction a new Cape Cutter from Honnor Marine, better imho than a Shrimper, comes in at £22300.00 inc VAT. Not bad at all although for the money you can get a lot of older boat at half that e.g. Halcyon 27 at around £12 Grand. If Westerly's has not stopped making the Centaur I reckon they would still be in business.

 

[Searush]

(snip) If Westerly's has not stopped making the Centaur I reckon they would still be in business.

Not strictly true, the Centar sales were declining & the Konsort was an excellent replacement - and just as much a classic, selling in large numbers. I agree that there was a period when some customers were demanding a Centaur after the Konsort was launched, but most saw the benefits of the later design once they tried it.

I think Westerly's demise was more to do with management - & financial circumstances (internal & external!) To stay in business you have to recognise & react to changes in the world around you. They didn't do that as well as the competition (which was mostly BenJenBav).

Anyway these are still 26 footers & quite an expensive boat compared to the "traditional starter" size of under 25'.

 

[David_Jersey]

That's a good point Kwaka, I suppose the Peche Prom is effectively replacing the old micro-plus 16-19' mini-cruisers? But sail boat makers aren't doing that.

I think the (new) market has moved on from folks seeking an 18 to 25 foot boat to stuff the wife and 2 kids in for a week. or even the weekend. And even s/h the demand from that "family" market is probably declining to match a declining supply of old GRP boats.

nowadays traditional Family use = bigger boat, for much the same reasons that no demand for Ford to reintroduce the MK1 Escort.

But I do think their is a gap in the market for smaller day sailing / local crusing boats - not neccessarily open boats, but neither designed for extended period onboard use for multiple persons or for rounding cape horn.

Instead of the 4 / 5 berths crammed into just about everything how about..........no permanent berths? Accomadation based around what you need in the daytime (bog / boil the kettle - light cooking / sit down under shelter & chat / have a kip for an hour or so). Designed for wipe down boating. And sailing performance around ease of handling / not scaring the wife (or skipper!), at the price of lower performance........a bit of an idiot proof yacht for no brainer ownership for sunny day / spur of the moment use (not a minimee go faster yacht) - low use would not break yer heart or annoy financially and can be sold new as a simple turnkey package to those on a HP form.

 

[photodog]

Instead of the 4 / 5 berths crammed into just about everything how about..........no permanent berths? Accomadation based around what you need in the daytime (bog / boil the kettle - light cooking / sit down under shelter & chat / have a kip for an hour or so). Designed for wipe down boating. And sailing performance around ease of handling / not scaring the wife (or skipper!), at the price of lower performance........a bit of an idiot proof yacht for no brainer ownership for sunny day / spur of the moment use (not a minimee go faster yacht) - low use would not break yer heart or annoy financially and can be sold new as a simple turnkey package to those on a HP form.

Thats a great idea... and these day boats are taking off in the states..

The Hinckley DS 42

I am not so sure how something like this would sell in the UK.. given the weather...

 

[Bajansailor]

The Alerions and the 'day sailers' from Morris Yachts are more lovely American boats on this theme - but ooooh, very expensive!

http://www.alerionexp.com/Story.html

http://www.morrisyachts.com/M-Series

The Hawk 20 built in Britain might be a bit closer to what most folk would think of as a day sailer type starter yacht - http://www.hawk20.co.uk/

 

[NorthUp]

My question remains, what will happen when the existing suppply of (now 20-40 year old) "starter" boats diminishes due to natural wastage? Sailing may well start to become exclusive & unobtainable then.

The Chinese will spot the gap and act accordingly- boats built from recycled milk cartons or similar.

 

[Searush]

David J

for much the same reasons that no demand for Ford to reintroduce the MK1 Escort.

But Smart, Nissan, Kia Mini & others make the equivalent basic city cars. The market clearly still exists. Just as there is a still steady demand for Snappies, Vegas, Corribees, Pageants, etc etc etc, on the used boat market, but the cost of producing them new is prohibitive.

My question remains, what will happen when the existing suppply of (now 20-40 year old) "starter" boats diminishes due to natural wastage? Sailing may well start to become exclusive & unobtainable then.

 

[dmmbruce]

.

Has the RCD killed off the home build option, or are people too wary of getting into the vast task of building their own boat in the back garden or garage? .

Please stop using initials!

What is RCD?

 

[Kawasaki]

Please stop using initials!

What is RCD?

Recreational Craft Directive

RCD saves a lot of typing!

 

[seanfoster]

What's going to happen to the older GRP boats to make them go away?

I often wonder this, with the huge production runs from people like bavaria, where do the old boats go? Do they just get scrapped? And how old is too old?

 

[dmmbruce]

Recreational Craft Directive

RCD saves a lot of typing!

Thank-you Kawasaki

I had found 14 other explanations on Wikipedia, and thought of several other (polite) ones too.

So, whilst it may save typing, initials don't always help with communication.

And I still haven't found what it is. But now I will go on looking.

Thank-you.

Mike

 

[Searush]

I often wonder this, with the huge production runs from people like bavaria, where do the old boats go? Do they just get scrapped? And how old is too old?

They catch fire, they sink, they get beyond economic repair & lie abandoned in harbours & boatyards until the authorities break them up or burn them. You see desperate owners trying to get rid of them on e-bay every week. The attrition rate is slow, but it is happening all the time.

With constant maintenance there is no reason why a GRP boat can't last for ever - it's the same for wooden, concrete or steel boats. But, sooner or later the annual cost of repair will exceed the current owners capability or willingness to pay. Stuff then gets left. For a little while there is no problem, but when the failures can no longer be ignored, the boat will be beyond economic repair. Then it's off to e-bay or quietly move house & don't tell the harbourmaster.

Most of the early GRP boats (now approaching 50 years old) were overbuilt & very heavy. They have mostly survived well, newer designs may not be so long lived - despite improvements in resins, building techniques & structural design. With a hard life (on charter) and light construction, some models will hit terminal problems before others.


DMMBruce; RCD defines the "capabilities" of new boat designs to sail in lakes, estuaries, offshore etc. It tends to penalise small boats - only certifying them fit for use in sheltered waters. However it pays no attention to the skills of the sailor & would have kept Shane Acton in Oxford (if that's the correct town?) It is the sort of nonsense that bureaucrats like to foist on unknowlegable or fearful people as "safety rules"

 

[Kawasaki]

Yep, I know initials etc can be a bit confusing.
The boaty world is probably no worse than others.

However there does seem to be quite a few floating about!

SOLAS
MCA
RYA
EPIRB
SAR

ETC
ETC

IMHO!

 

[David_Jersey]

Thats a great idea... and these day boats are taking off in the states..

The Hinckley DS 42

I am not so sure how something like this would sell in the UK.. given the weather...

I want one

But I was thinking something nearer the Macgregor 26 in spirit, if not in style (errrr....make that definately not in style ).

The weather thing in the UK would I feel require some sort of wheel shelter, maybe peche promenade in style, whether fixed or soft top......maybe overall more of a puposeful / motorsailer look above the waterline (in the soft 4x4 style) rather than trying to look like a minimee gofaster racer......albeit underwater using the modern wide beam & stern for both fair weather performance and accomadation options.

Maybe a First 21 (if not a wider stern)

with a peche promenade on top

Maybe the wheelhouse not fixed and / or with a bit of thought on the rig

I like no boom........and a bowsprit Bumpkin optional


oh, and 25 hp on the stern (12/15 knots?).........

 

[Searush]

(snip)
oh, and 25 hp on the stern (12/15 knots?).........

That will be a problem. It is a great deal of weight right on the stern & the prop will also tend to come out of the water in overfalls or shallow water wind over tide situations. Add 2 chunky people in the cockpit & you have almost half a ton at the back of the boat. The MacGregor has a very wide flat stern to deal with the weight & help encourage planing at speed. That affects its sailing ability somewhat.

Have a look at the Pedro or Mirror Offshore (bothy no longer made, but plenty still about) both usually have dependable inboards, but could possibly cope with biggish outboards instead.

 

[Bajansailor]

There IS an alternative to the MacGregor 26, if you do need a planing sailing boat - it is called the Edge, and it is built by Hunter Marine in the USA - more about it here at http://www.huntermarine.com/Models/27Edge/27EDGEIndex.html

Or if speed is not everything, what about a Swin Ranger - http://www.swinranger.co.uk/

I am tempted to start sketching out David's ideas above, re a Benny 21 with a wee wheelhouse, bowsprit, loose footed main and a big O/B on the back..... hang on, Phil Bolger has probably come up with something like this already!

 

[padipaddy]

Well I may be the very person you are talking about........

I sailed for 4 days about 15 years ago and have not sailed since.( I use boats all the time for work but not sailing boats unless we are lifting them off the seabed!!)

I have just purchased a 2003 ...HANSE 341


Rab

 

[Searush]

Well I may be the very person you are talking about........

I sailed for 4 days about 15 years ago and have not sailed since.( I use boats all the time for work but not sailing boats unless we are lifting them off the seabed!!)

I have just purchased a 2003 ...HANSE 341

Rab

I think you have just responded to a post of mine on another thread (the exclusivity one) Please take more care with your nav when in your new boat - or stay on your own side of the Irish Sea please.

You may be new to sailing, but you are not new to the sea & boats are you? HMCG & RNLI are kept very busy with people on my side of the Irish Sea who buy a sports cruiser & tow it to the sea with no understanding of the sea whatsoever. They are often referrred to as the "Birmingham Navy". I'm sure you are not that naive, but that's an expensive boat to make any mistakes with. After 35 years sailing I STILL make mistakes. I wish you luck.

 

[dylanwinter]

starter boat

my first yacht was an eboat - 22 foot - drop keel. It cost me £4,000 25 years ago - and it took a lot of saving

the super slug - mirror offshore 19 foot - cost me £2,000 - she is 40 years old and I have spent as little as possible on her despite being part way through a Uk circumnavigation

I see no reason why she should not last another 40 years or even 40 beyond that

Its all very well buying a bigger boat second hand - but everything goes up exponentially.
I can guarantee that a winch for a 30 footer costs a lot more than a winch for a Mirror Offshore - oh hang on - my boat doesn't have any winches, or fridges, or cookers, my ropes are shorter, my insurance is lower, my sails are cheaper

come on over to smaller boats - its the land of milk and honey

Dylan