Starter boat for family cruising

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robertt

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Hi folks
I've been reading this forum lots but haven't posted any queries for a while.
I am getting (a little) closer to my dream of getting a sailing boat to take my 2 boys cruising on the Clyde Coast.
Basically I have booked some training and have persuaded SWMBO to let me part with some cash for a boat. Her biggest objection was the ongoing costs of berthing, but I am now considering a swing mooring rather than a marina berth, which seems to halve the yearly outlay.
I have been perusing the internet (a lot!) looking at boats and I have to say it is pretty good fun but having seen a few that seem to fit my criteria I wondered if anyone with experience or pearls of wisdom could help me with any comments that might help me choose between their relative merits.
I could wait until next year but I was wondering if better deals can be had during the Winter when (I would expect) there is less interest in boats?
Anyways I want to cruise the West Coast of Scotland in all that that entails in terms of less than idyllic weather, with my 2 sons aged 5 and 12. I want to be able to overnight in reasonable comfort and might occasionally want to stay away longer, anything up to a week. I may occasionally be joined by my wife and 9 yr old daughter in addition so accomodation needs to stretch occasionally to 5. I'm not interested in racing but would like to go fast enough to make reasonable passages during daylight hours.
The boats that have caught my eye are:

Ohlson 8.8
Stag 28
Colvic Salty Dog 27
Dufour 27
Verl 790

Am I on track or do I need to start again?!

Any tips greatly appreciated
 
The training is sensible but your problem at the moment is that you are looking at boats but dont really understand what you are looking at. It would be easy for you to be swayed by the interior or the cheap price and end up buying something unsuitable. Problem is that for every boat you have listed there will be an enthusiast on here who will tell you how wonderful it is.

I always giove the same advice to people asking your question. Join a club, sail with as many other people as you can. Listen to what they say ( pinch, of salt handy) but do that for at least a season and preferably two seasons before you put your hand on your wallet. Boats are easy to buy but often much harder to sell.
 
You refer to it as a "starter boat" which implies that all being well you will be thinking of moving up to something else after a few years.

IMO you should be looking at one of the popular makes / models so that when the time comes it is easy to sell.

Getting a bit old now maybe but a well maintained Centaur could be a good choice from that point of view. If finances allow one of the other popular, but more recent, Westerly classes perhaps.

A Moody could for the same reasons be a wise choice

Alternatively something from one of the popular continental makes.

Its useful to have an active owners association whose members can help with queries or problems a new owner may have.

Unless boat restoration is your passion be sure you buy something that you can inspect thoroughly and see fully rigged and sailing.
 
Those are all boats that might be in the frame, but none of them are particularly popular in that they were not made in large numbers. Therefore the choice of what is available at any one time is small.

The key things in buying a first boat of this size is to get one in the best functioning condition that you can. To an extent the actual model is relatively unimportant, but it make sense to buy one of the more popular boats partly because you have more to choose from and partly because they are probably easier to sell when you move on.

You are somewhat limited in a way because your choice of boats in your local area is more limited than say on the South Coast, but on the other hand are more likely to be suitable for your conditions. So get some experience, talk to people, look at lots of boats and you will find you will focus very quickly on suitable boats.
 
Think small enough to afford a marina pontoon. With easy access to the boat you will do more with her. Oh and its worth trying to do a deal - there are more people leaving marinas than new ones coming in.

You go sailing more if you can easily access at any time of day or night.

Even in winter you can use her as a glorified shed if yuo can walk ashore.

Or even use her a a B&B and stay overnight if the wind is too strong to go sailing - take the family our for a meal locally or cook onboard - its still a adventure.
 
VicS has a good point - sticking to a well known popular boat means you'll be able to sell it later and there will be lots of advice if you need things done on it.

agree too about marina berths being better than swinging moorings, but i can't afford it either. we have a swinging mooring in the summer and do a deal with the marina for winter.
 
Look at your budget very carefully. Keep 20% for contingencies. You will be buying someone else's troubles with a second hand boat. Of the boats mentioned, the Colvic and the Dufour are OK but with the Colvic, finish is everything. Some were professionally completed but a lot were home completed and of these, many will have been done with cheap materials and not always skillfully done.

The centaur is still amazingly popular as a starter boat. Solid and stable and relatively easy to sell on.

Swinging moorings are always a pain to get to unless it's close to the launching site for your dinghy. Having had one for many years, I'd recommend a hard dinghy to leave behind when you go sailing rather than an inflatable.

+1 on join a club first.
 
If you go for an older one, go for a reengined one if you can. As others say, you will be limited to what's available in your area. Don't know what your budget is, but something like this perhaps? Take your time, it's a buyers market...
 
Just going to say a word in favour of swing moorings vs. pontoon berths.
In addition to being cheaper, a swing mooring has many practical benefits. A boat may keep drier and happier being head to wind on a mooring. No fenders and warps to worry about and sort out every time. Jobs that involve raising sails etc can usually be done quite easily on a mooring. Also, you can often sail on and off it which is usually impossible with a marina berth. This can be important if your boat handles poorly under power, or has a temperamental engine.
The downsides are fairly obvious and up to the OP to decide what his priorities are.

From my own experience, I have a boat which the rain gets into if it's blowing from astern, and is a pig to handle under power. We did once keep her on a pontoon for the winter and actually sailed less often than we did when kept on a mooring. One of the factors causing that was that in certain wind conditions it was simply beyond us to safely manoeuvre in and out of the berth, so she stayed put rather than risk hitting another boat.
 
A good Westerly tiger might be ok, probably as much room as the ones you mention. But at inch over 25ft will cost a bit less in mooring fees. Two reasonable quarter berth a double in the saloon and two berths in the the forepeak. Was designed by John Butler who also designed the Cirrus for Westerly also. She was built asd a fast cruiser and is quicker than the Centaur though without the choice of layouts below. I haqve a soft spot for t5he Tiger as I sailed one for eight years on the Clyde, the western Isles and Ireland.

J
 
Agree with Tranona that these are slightly left field choices. Perhaps looking to put speed as high up the wish list as possible (e.g. the colvic). If though you think you might be looking to sell the boat on in a reasonable timeframe then if you can compromise on speed the best option at this price point will probably boil down to be a Centaur. Not expensive boats that fulfill all your other criteria and will loose very little when you move on. Also probably more choice as irrespective of geography there are loads of them about.
 
joha said:
A good Westerly tiger might be ok, probably as much room as the ones you mention. But at inch over 25ft will cost a bit less in mooring fees. Two reasonable quarter berth a double in the saloon and two berths in the the forepeak. Was designed by John Butler who also designed the Cirrus for Westerly also. She was built asd a fast cruiser and is quicker than the Centaur though without the choice of layouts below. I haqve a soft spot for t5he Tiger as I sailed one for eight years on the Clyde, the western Isles and Ireland.

J
Click to expand...

Yes a Tiger would be a good choice too with decent Westerly residuals if the OP moves on.
 
A lot of sense is being talked here. I agree that swinging moorings have their merits; I wouldn't be able to afford to keep a boat if it had to go in a marina. I'd suggest joining a club, talk to loads of people, look at their boats. There are literally dozens of boats that will fir the bill. Just remember, all boats are a compromise.
I don't know what the budget is but agree to buying something popular. Sadler 25 may be a bit small, the 26 is better for what you want. It has standing headroom and is a lot more spacious.
\come to that, I happen to know where there is a very nice Sadler 29 for sale............
 
Slow_boat said:
A lot of sense is being talked here. I agree that swinging moorings have their merits; I wouldn't be able to afford to keep a boat if it had to go in a marina. I'd suggest joining a club, talk to loads of people, look at their boats. There are literally dozens of boats that will fir the bill. Just remember, all boats are a compromise.
I don't know what the budget is but agree to buying something popular. Sadler 25 may be a bit small, the 26 is better for what you want. It has standing headroom and is a lot more spacious.
\come to that, I happen to know where there is a very nice Sadler 29 for sale............
Click to expand...

+1 Get out sailing go to a local club see who is short of crew, for you and maybe even your kids.

Take every opportunity to playing on boats do not wait to learn on your own boat.. Dinghy, yacht, motor boat anything is experience, go out and enjoy...
 
We moved up to a Hunter Delta (25) from a Gem Micro which was a good move as it retained some sailing performance but suited us fine for coastal cruising. Sadlers are good, as are Contessas.
I think 25/ 26 ft is a good length to be considering for a starter boat as you normally get standing headroom and perhaps an inboard diesel.
Centaurs have been around forever, are bombproof and hold their price nicely but just lack a bit in terms of sailing performance
I think cost is a vital component but also the ability to move the boat on should you make the awful dicovery that this family is not for cruising!
 
claymore said:
We moved up to a Hunter Delta (25) from a Gem Micro which was a good move as it retained some sailing performance but suited us fine for coastal cruising. Sadlers are good, as are Contessas.
I think 25/ 26 ft is a good length to be considering for a starter boat as you normally get standing headroom and perhaps an inboard diesel.
Centaurs have been around forever, are bombproof and hold their price nicely but just lack a bit in terms of sailing performance
I think cost is a vital component but also the ability to move the boat on should you make the awful dicovery that this family is not for cruising!
Click to expand...

Centaurs sail great if you tweak the sails properly.
 
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