Standing rigging on Centaur - last replaced in 1996

[Uricanejack]

ask me if you need a pro or an amateur to write some copy or make a film and I will give you the obvious answer


the problem with asking a rigger is that his opinion will be -"replace the lot - give me the work"

it is a bit like asking a chimney sweep if the chimney needs sweeping

if I were to replace all the bits on a boat that has been suggested

from the radio to the keel joints then the journey would not happen

I shall drop the mast - to replace the bulbs anyway and then have a good butchers

I replaced the bent rigging screws of Katie L with Dyneema bindings

and there is a cat near me on the pontoons that has dyneema stays

but the fore-stays are wire - I guess because of the roller reefing

D

I can understand the about being informed you need to replace the whole thing.

A good rigger who does surveys will just give you his best judgment on the condition of your rig. Highlighting. Potential. Problems. He will tell you what needs doing right away and make recommendations on future requirements. It will still be up to you what you need to do and who you want to do it. Including your self.

Pehalps its worth while getting recommendations for a good rigger who deals with old boats and should string budget owners. Like me.

 

[Searush]

When I bought Egret (Dylan; you'll remember this boat...) her mast was in two, very broken, pieces. The old standing rigging was inside her cabin and one of the lower shrouds was missing the 'T' fitting from the top.

Turned out that the previous owner was racing in the RTI under spinnaker just SE of the needles when the mast came down. A friend who was also racing his E-Boat mentioned that lots of shouting and hassle had ensued as a number of boats almost drove into Egret's transom. A slow and ignominious tow back to the Beaulieau river ensued.

I decide to learn the lesson from his bad experience and have ended up replacing plenty of standing rigging; but still have a mast stood standing to show for it!

Centaurs & E-boats have few design features in common other than they both float (usually).

Centaurs may be relatively heavy, but the gear is well overspecced too & I doubt that Dylan will chose to push it to its limits. In adverse weather then heaving to, or motoring gently to shelter, are perfectly acceptable courses of action when cruising. As a Family cruiser, I tend not to beat into heavy weather - it is never a preferred choice when I have an excellent engine & a sprayhood I can hide under even if I have to plug into the wind.

 

[BruceDanforth]

My rigging is of unknown age except the forestay which I changed when I fitted the new roller reefing. I will be changing the rest shortly before my adventures. I'd prefer to do it in a controlled way rather than when something has broken and I'm in a strange port and people I don't know have got me by the balls.

 

[William_H]

Well Dylan I consider that the replacement of standing rigging will be the most important thing you can do to make the adventure a success. Rigging wire does fail at the swages it seems to me based entirely on calender time. Any failure of any wire will be end of the mast. I have seen it some 5 times of recent years at our club. There is no way to successfully inspect the wires for condition. They go without warning. Only replacement at 15 to 20 years is any guarantee of integrity.
Do not think the intermediate stays are less important. If they fail the mast will crumple. If the cap shrouds fail the mast will snap off in the middle where the intermediates hold it up.
I have not seen a forestay fail. This however may be due to most boats I know not having jib furlers. By using a hank on jib you have in the halyard and jib luff an alternate load path to the forestay. If however your furler systeem means the forestay is the only element then yes just as susceptible to failure and similar outcome.
Similarly perhaps the backstay is not so critical especially on a fractioanl rig where backstay is in addition to aft mounted cap shrouds.

Regarding harder work on a rig when racing. I don't think this is valid. It is the wind in the sails and the resultant heel of the boat that dictates load in the shrouds. Most cruisers will find they get overpowered from time to time and heel the boat over. It is really no different when racing. Perhaps more tension on the forestay from hard jib sheeting but surely you do that when cruising too.
One example I saw was a 21fter which had sat on the mooring for most of its 25 year life. hardly ever used then only for a drift around. Another friend bought it and shortly after the cap shroud let go. ("ave a noo mast" ).
As said lower the mast (You will always be grateful you can do that easily) take off the cap shrouds and inners at least and get them replaced. I have never seen a rigging screw fail. They just seize up from lack of lubrication and exercise. Cost will be as much in the fittings as the wire but not really expensive if you deliver to the workshop compared to new mast. Don't listen to all the other posters who are running their own boats on optimism so want you to do the same. olewill

 

[DownWest]

Talking to a Canadian friend with a 30fter on the lakes. Always had the boat on the hard for the cold season, with the mast down. He commented (and I have heard it elsewhere) that the natural vibration due to wind is a facter in fatigue (which is what we are talking about here). So, if rigged, the age matters, less so if the mast is down for half of the year. Olewill's comments are spot on. As for inspection, the only accurate way would be close to the cost of replacment, unless there are loose wires which would sound very loud alarm bells.

 

[Lakesailor]

18 years old? It's nearly brand new.

I don't rate all this reliance on A frames either. It's most unlikely you will get the pivot point in the same plane as that of the mast pivot, so as you lower the mast you lose control of the direction of travel.
Much better to take two lines (on the main halyard) to the top of the mast and have two people, one at each side, stabilising the mast as it lowers. It won't go more than an inch or two out of true.

 

[Seajet]

Lakesailor,

have you handled a Centaur mast ?! Bloody big and heavy...there are several at our club, there's plenty of willing help around but they always use an A frame or sometimes two larger boats alongside using their masts as supports to raise it.

Even the much lighter 26' mast with a pivoted step on my 22' boat is near the human assisted limit, thanks to my cunningly placing the radar exactly where the X crutch fits; I couldn't have judged it worse if I'd been paid by ' you've been framed ' or something !

I have known a few smaller boats whose crew lost control of the mast ending up with mast in the mud, I still have a torn muscle from only just recovering a mast that was going off vertical.

The Centaur is definitely at the limit of being able to be stepped by normal humans.

 

[Lakesailor]

One guy on each side, not on the side decks, can control lateral movement perfectly. In the same way that one person can control a fin keeler balanced on it's keel. The trick is to not let the mass move away from it's stable position.
If you do that you're just playing catch-up. Which is when you pull muscles and break ribs, etc.

 

[James W]

New rigging without rigging screws approx £350, with a good quality rigging screw (Sta Lok) approx £500. Most boats were fitted with T terminals or eyes. Most were 6mm although I have seen some that had a 5mm babystay. Far easier to fit with the mast down!

Dylan,

If you're looking for an honest opinion from someone, Craig (above) is in the process of re-rigging my Tomahawk. Travelled to me to remove exisiting rigging, checked the rigging screws over to make sure they were up to the job and advised me that I could re-use them to save me a bit of cash (didn't have to). Gave me a very competitive price and I even ended up buying furling gear from him. A thoroughly decent bloke.

No connections whatsoever, but a very satisfied customer.

James

 

[Searush]

Lakesailor,

have you handled a Centaur mast ?! Bloody big and heavy...there are several at our club, there's plenty of willing help around but they always use an A frame or sometimes two larger boats alongside using their masts as supports to raise it.

Even the much lighter 26' mast with a pivoted step on my 22' boat is near the human assisted limit, thanks to my cunningly placing the radar exactly where the X crutch fits; I couldn't have judged it worse if I'd been paid by ' you've been framed ' or something !

I have known a few smaller boats whose crew lost control of the mast ending up with mast in the mud, I still have a torn muscle from only just recovering a mast that was going off vertical.

The Centaur is definitely at the limit of being able to be stepped by normal humans.

So how come I have done my Pentland mast? It is quite a bit bigger than a Centaur mast - ie fatter & longer. I don't think my son & I class as superhuman. I am a porky pensioner & he is a small, skinny mid thirties bloke.

I can (just) lift my mast & rigging on my own, but wouldn't try carrying it far or thro a car park with out a person at each end. As already stated, it is all about stopping it moving sideways & managing the load as it passes from the forestay to a supporting strut.

 

[ianc1200]

Dylan, smaller but perhaps heavier mast dropping technique as mentioned in earlier post. Scaffold pole fixed to mast, two triple blocks, 21m of rope, and almost can be done using one hand.

Film by Sohie19/The Blind Sailor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1HMWMId3UQ

 

[William_H]

Lakesailors concern about the pivot point of an A frame is a bit misleading. If the A frame or single strut is used to improve the angle of pull of a tackle on the forestay then the pivot point location is of little concern. I helped a friend last week raise a hevy wooden mast. He had a single post attached by cheak plates to the sampson post. Well ahead of the mast base. In this case the cheak plates held the pole from falling sideways. All the pole or A frame has to do is raise the bottom of the forestay (or halyard) up a distance something like 1/3 mast height before the tackle attaches.
Wobble of the mast sideways is a concern and lakesailor is right in that ropes (or halyards ) held by people either side of the boat can stabilise it very successfully. On my little boat 27 ft light mast I can do it if i stand on the cabin top and guide the mast. I do it smartly to get it in the crutch ASAP.
There are various other methods available to hold the mast on centre line as it traverses down. All need additional gear or modifications.
On Sat morning I was involved with a club race in the ocean. 9 keel boats from 21ft to 32 ft had to lower masts to traverse under bridges to get to the race start and again on return had to lower masts on the run. it becomes easier with practice and the right gear. olewill