St Peter Port Guernsey has 'no sense of welcome' for visiting yachts

[doug748]

Attached, my email to Sean Fuller, after reading the same article...

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I spent four nights (two lots of two) in St Peter Port recently, en route to Jersey and N Brittany. Happened to see your story on the front page of the local press. You asked for comments - here goes.

G promotes itself as a 24 hour harbour. It's not. If you have a deep keel there are many areas where you cannot go towards low water - especially at springs - and these are unmarked. Some additional bouyage - or better still - some serious dredging - would be good.

The Swan pontoons - surely not beyond the wit of Guernseymen to install shore power on them? Cherbourg does it on its waiting pontoon. The offer to run engines between 0800 and 1000 to recharge batteries is a joke.

The Swan pontoons - would it not be possible to link them with the shore? Even hand-operated rope ferries would do the trick. Obviating the need to haul an inflatable out of a locker, and inflate it to row ashore (then reversing the process before you leave) would be a great improvement and make SPP much more attractive as a port of call.

The visitors' marina. Max depth 1.8 metres? A joke. And why not dredge the marina and an entrance channel and install lock gates, making 24h access available?

We arrived on a Sunday, with an empty gas bottle. Inflated the dinghy, rowed it across to Boatworks, only to find it closed on Sunday afternoon. With sailing being - mainly - a weekend occupation, not to have fuel and gas available throughout the weekend is plain stupid. Incidentally, we went back on Monday morning and they had no stock of gas and couldn't suggest an alternative source of supply. Serious sense of humour failure by my wife, who likes her cup of tea in the morning. She has declared she is NEVER going back to G, except in a dire emergency.

We didn't need fuel, but if we had we couldn't have got any near low water. Why not have a floating fuel pontoon? Jersey does.

What's with the antediluvian customs procedure? It's the only place in Northern Europe I've sailed into where such form filling is necessary. Although maybe in Russia...

The showers may not be third world, but they sure aren't first. Cramped, scruffy, badly ventilated, unhygienic, too few and in the middle of a car park! The days of the spartan yachtsman who scrubbed himself off in the cockpit once a month with a bar of saltwater soap are over. People expect decent facilities. If they don't get them they go elsewhere. G's harbour commissioners should visit Chichester Marina, or Berthons in Lymington. Or even St Helier!

Havelet Bay. Why not install visitors moorings and extend the water taxi service to cover there? Better still, enclose it (God knows, you've got enough waterproof rocks lying around the place looking threatening) and make a deepwater marina.

Finally, what a money grabbing bunch! On our first visit we hadn't even got our lines sorted out before we were being asked for mooring fees. On our second visit, I was still tidying up the mainsail when the demand for payment arrived. Because we stayed an extra day (only because of a rotten weather forecast) we were hauled out of our bunks at 0830 by the ticket collector hammering on the hull. Almost everywhere else trusts the visitor to turn up at the harbour office and pay fees. To demand payment before you've even got out of your oilskins is not good, not welcoming.

This trip we visited five locations. SPP came a distant last.

A sad effort there Twister Ken. Disappointing in tone and content.

 

[sailorman]

A sad effort there Twister Ken. Disappointing in tone and content.

Seemed fair enough to me, its just as he saw the situation at that time.
The island has now even doubled the bus fares for visitors since last year.

 

[Dockhead]

We spent the better part of a week there last month.

We went into QEIi marina for a change (previous years anchored in Havalet Bay). We are too big (at 54 feet) for the other basin.

Our stay was perfectly excellent. The only defect was poor wifi coverage (soon corrected with a cheap, excellent, local data SIM card). Gorged our tanks on duty free gasoil with no queue, enough to last us until we come back next year. Absolutely no complaints. St. Peter Port has become the traditional grand finale of our annual summer Channel perambulation, much beloved. Guernsey is lovely.

 

[Robin]

A sad effort there Twister Ken. Disappointing in tone and content.

BUT very true to what we found in our last few years of visiting. WE telephoned Boatworks once from a mile or two out saying we needed fuel whwn we arrived and it was nearing closing time they said they closed at (IIRC ) 5pm WE actually made it before they shut for the day but they had already closed and locked up the pumps readyfor a quick getaway They told us to come back when they opened next morning but guess what that was at low tide so we couldn't get to the fuel berth even though we were on the outside pontoons. We had the tide gate at the Race to catch, going home to the UK so we hovered off the fuel dock waiting for enough water to get alongside, but then when we could do so, the local fishing boats turned up en masse and were given priority, even the little outboard powered one

Another time we were alongside ready to fuel up and when they turned the pump on it sprayed diesel all over our decks. The hose had been sandwiched between the floating pontoon and the sea wall when one of the big Condor fastcats arrived and it's residual wash from outside the harbor threw the pontoon against the wall, crushing and splitting the hose It took me hours to clean up so the decks were not like an ice rink and dangerous. Beware when Condor is due, because a big wash is common even though condor actually slows well before the entrance, its' wash takes time to dissipate. To be fair we had been warned once on another occasion by the Boatworks man to get our lines on quick and not to stand on the pontoon 'cos Condor was 'imminent'.

BTW We asked why they didn't dredge the marina and outer harbor and were told that there is only a thin bit of sand under which is solid rock..

WE took to anchoring in Havelet bay or off Sark in Havre Gosselin or Derrible or DIxcart bays and keeping our money to ourselves whereas in earlier years we had been regular visitors to GY and spent loads in local shops and restaurants, their loss and France's gain.

 

[zefender]

A sad effort there Twister Ken. Disappointing in tone and content.

Following TK's experiences, it seems entirely appropriate that his tone is disappointing. As has been mentioned elsewhere, StPP is seeking ideas to attract more visitors. This is generally achieved by getting customers to re-visit or for them to stay longer. TK was pointing out some stuff that in his view, makes it very unlikely he will willingly re-visit.

But I don't think StPP is alone in being well behind the curve of 21st century yachtie demands - it's in a pretty large group. As it's not a premium priced marina, maybe it should consider improvements in return for a modest hike in rates (shock horror suggestion). But restricting fuel sales via undersupply of service (by forced queueing, inadequate depth, opening hours etc) is daft as is the cost of docking staff in a boat to collect modest sums of money (online payment by smartphone anyone?). A harbour just isn't a place to kip and/or avoid open sea weather, it should be a convenience and a pleasure, surely? I'm afraid on my last visit (OK, some years ago), I found both land and seaside of StPP a bit of time travel, in a disappointing way.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Following TK's experiences, it seems entirely appropriate that his tone is disappointing.

Is there an equivalent of Tripadvisor for ports, harbours and marinas?

 

[DJE]

Is there an equivalent of Tripadvisor for ports, harbours and marinas?

You're reading it!

 

[Nico]

I was in St Peter Port last Saturday as part of the JOG race from Cowes. We were greeted at the harbour entrance (at 7 a.m.) by a friendly harbour matey who led us in his dory to a pontoon. Not a bad start. We had to get the water taxi over as the pontoon was not walk ashore, which is always a bit of a bind. With nine of us on board the berthing cost itself can soon become dwarfed by harbour taxi costs so one tends to make the one trip and carry everything around all day. Having said that the young water taxi guy was really friendly and apologised for the steep rate. It's a bit of a trek round to the marina office and we never did find out the code to the shower block, or the wifi, but Costa Coffee had wifi so no problems there.

I've been sailing long enough to remember some much more basic facilities, even in the solent, so I wasn't disappointed. A walk ashore pontoon would have been the one thing I'd have liked. The yacht club and reception we had was excellent.

 

[prv]

A walk ashore pontoon would have been the one thing I'd have liked.

+1

I've stayed out of this thread as I've never been to Guernsey and didn't feel qualified to comment. But of all the gripes listed, I think this would be the only one I really cared about. I don't want to see everywhere transformed into an identikit Solent marina with piped music in the loos. And the suggestion to take a convenient free anchorage and fill it with moorings or even enclose it as a marina!

But Ken's suggestion of a "hand ferry" (8-foot-square pontoon you can haul along a rope) from the outer pontoons to the shore is a good one.

Pete

 

[npf1]

Has much changed at SPP since 2011? Quite a few of the comments here reminded me of this thread from early 2012: http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?302193-Guernsey-Marina-confusion

 

[RUSSH]

Visited SPP and Alderney a couple of weeks ago. No complaints at all. Had a great time. Do I need to raise my expectations?

 

[Sailfree]

Was there this year at height of season and yachts were rafted 16 deep awaiting to get into the marina.

Staff were friendly and helpful.

Problem with SPP is inadequate facilities to cope with its popularity (possibly as it is a very convenient stop over point). They need more pontoons linkled to the shore and electricity on them.

IMHO some French boats could do with some policing by the dory's as they are often less experienced at rafting and have inadequate fenders (Solent boats end up doing it frequently!)

 

[Keith-i]

Unfortunately customer service can sometimes be a bit lacking in the CI's. There is a tendency for employees to be working just for the money rather than as a vocation and they are therefore keen to get home as quickly as possible. There could also be an element of complacency due to lack of competition. Having said all that, there are some very genuine and helpful people and if you go with the right attitude there is good chance you'll get the response you desire. St PP is prettier than St Helier IMV though the busy road and car parks are specific problems which have no easy solution. There is certain charm about the rather ad hoc way it has evolved rather than having a master plan, though there is scope for improvement. A water taxi and better facilities on the waiting pontoons would appeal to me.

 

[Twister_Ken]

A water taxi and better facilities on the waiting pontoons would appeal to me.

There is a water taxi. Costs a lot and on our first visit this year it wasn't available - no one could say why.

The Swan pontoons are not waiting pontoons. They're visitor pontoons for those who are too big or too deep to get into Victoria Marina, or who aren't staying long enough to warrant waiting for tides in and out of the marina. If you are deep you need to be towards the seaward end coz the shore end ain't deep at LW.

The waiting pontoon is a different item, and some of it gets VERY shallow at LW.

 

[Keith-i]

I think we're talking about the same pontoons. I've always known them as the 'waiting' pontoons, but I am referring to the 4 or so lengths of pontoon bobbing around just outside the marina sill.

 

[sailorman]

I think we're talking about the same pontoons. I've always known them as the 'waiting' pontoons, but I am referring to the 4 or so lengths of pontoon bobbing around just outside the marina sill.

Ken is further north

 

[Twister_Ken]

As far as I'm aware there's only one waiting pontoon - the one more or less directly in line with the marina entrance. It's clearly marked 'waiting' and a notice promises dire retribution if it's used for any other purpose. It dries 0.45m at CD towards the marina entrance. There is 0.5m at the other end.

The other pontoons, called the Swan pontoons because they were originally laid when the Swan Europeans were held there in the 1980's (I have the tee shirts!), have at least 2.0m at CD except Swan 1 (nearest to the waiting pontoon), 1.4 to 2.0m, and the west end of Swan 4, 1.7 to 2.0m.

If you try and leave the Swan Pontoons by going out to the west of them (between them and the harbour walls) you are very likely to begin ploughing if you are anywhere near 2 hrs either side of a springy LW.

 

[Seven Spades]

We have avoided SPP for the last two seasons. Last year returning directly from St Helier and this year we stopped at Dixcart Bay. We love Guernsey but hate the harbour for the following reasons:-

1. Trying to collect mooring fees before we have finished tying up the boat.
2. Trying to collect mooring fees while I am in bed
3. The costs of taxi-ing ashore (5 in our family)

We like going inside if we can get onto a pontoon on the right, but only go in if we are planing to stay for 3-days.

I think that the swan pontoons could be turned into giant basins and make walk ashore but I think it is a recipe for lots of damage or a reduction in capacity. The way the boats are rafted up could not easily happen in a basin as some boats wold not be able to exit without others also needing to move. However I think the suggestion of a pull over dinghy to allow easy access at all times without either breaking the bank or being worried about the bosun going home would be an improvement. Power is needed on the Swan pontoons.

SPP could make an action plan and easily implement some of the suggestions on this forum. I doubt that the loss of profit would be significant from the taxi service as I suspect that fuel and labour probably makes that operation marginal at best.

I personally have not had a problem with fuel. Usually if I arrive at SPP going south I will have nearly full tanks. Going northI wait for the rising tide before I depart so it is easy to refuel as I depart.

I can't complain about the form filling as I still believe that as soon as HMG can get their computers sorted they are going to impose the most draconian immigration checks in the whole of Europe on yachtsmen. Policed by compulsory AIS transponders (I digress).

One more thing ask the bosuns to slow down they create an awful wash.

 

[prv]

However I think the suggestion of a pull over dinghy to allow easy access at all times without either breaking the bank or being worried about the bosun going home would be an improvement.

Yep!

The ones I've seen elsewhere have been little square rafts with a hand rail either side to hold onto as it moves. I suppose a big dinghy would do although a square of pontoon at pontoon height is easier to step on and off. You then have a fixed cable from end to end, with the raft running on sheaves or fairleads threaded over the cable, just above the waterline. Then at waist / chest height you have a continuous loop of rope, between fixed pulleys mounted on posts at each end, and with the raft fixed to the middle of it. A bit like those old-school New York washing lines. That way you can pull yourself across while standing on the raft, and you can also pull the raft over to your side if you come down to the crossing and find it's at the other.

Dead simple, and the sort of thing a decent handyman ought to be able to knock up for very little if the harbour has a decent junk pile in the depot to scrounge bits from.

Pete

 

[syfuga]

Is Twister Ken being shy about the reply for a reason. I believe he was more or less spot on.

Could not believe the rates charged by the water taxi - I forget precisely, but £'s per person each way, for a 20 metre journey, with a discount for a return ticket. The student operator agreed, but didn't set the prices. Enough for most people to launch the dinghy instead. The pricing is counter productive.

Then power on the 'Swan' pontoons certainly, (the water tap on ours this year was hanging on by a thread), free wifi perhaps, cut out the ridiculous form filling. The young lady collecting fees was charming, but ruthlessly efficient on arrival as stated, and we were polled early in the morning to see if we were staying a further night.

And to me it has lost some of its charm. I could not believe the prices asked for alchohol - who are they kidding?