SSB/VHF licensing

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ps
As an unbiased observation, no offence meant, grovel grovel, I would like to see wireless dealers firmly on the user's side and working to remove the absurd current restrictions.


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Well being here shows our commitment to the marine user.
I try to help where I can and offer the right advice other than just here say.
How many other manufactures have stuck their heads up on here?

We (ICOM) are driven by the rules and regs, we don't make them.
We attend meeting to talk through the problems with MCA and Ofcom, as do a number of "wireless dealers".

Hence the move on the PBO forum about VHF DSC.

Rules are there for a reason.
We all have to follow the law other wise choas will rule.

Whilst I can see and understand some of the frustrations if we all choose to ignore the laws we don't agree with where would we be?

Having known Mike as long as I have worked here he will be sadly missed by the industry as a whole.
He know's his stuff and mananges to put it across in a sain manner
He, IMHO, will impossible to replace.
We will end up with some pen pushing numpty who cares nothing for the marine world

Regards
 
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I remember a post that you made a while ago regarding the authorities in the windys not caring if you had a licence or not, then last week I found <a href="thishttp://lists.samurai.com/pipermail/great-loop/2004-December/005057.html" target="_blank">thishttp://lists.samurai.com/pipermail/great-loop/2004-December/005057.html</a> and thought how lucky you must be!
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Skipper Bob is a slightly eccentric character who publishes and sells the best guide there is to the ICW up the East coast of the USA.

The authorites in the Bahamas (I spent some time there) have all sorts of problems with US flagged boats who try to avoid the somewhat expensive entry/exit fees. I certainly did not have a VHF licence then as the people who did it before Ofcom (it was a private co - something castle or similar) had said I do not need one out of UK waters...

I have also posted that I think the combined licence - VHF/SSB/Radar/Epirb is not unreasonable - some one has to pay the authorties to aurthorise so it should be the users.. Even I have one!!! Now!!!

My only gripe is with the inane operators licence issue...
 
If anyone is interested the USA version of the IC-M802 is available in Gibraltar from Sheppards - the following is their email to me...... The prices are on board Gib - no tax or VAT.... Are there better deals in the UK??

Thanks for your message 23/01/05. The IC-M710 is no longer available. The
IC-M802 which replaces it is not yet homologated for European use but we
will be getting the U.S. version in May; we expect the price to be about
GBP1200.00, plus GBP469.00 for the AT-140 antenna tuner.
 
Come off it. You don't need a licence to listen to marine SSB or VHF. I have radios in my kitchen and shed which will do just that and they are sold over the counter in domestic electrical shops. You don't even need a licence to have a transmitter on the boat in the UK. You need a licence to <u>use</u> it to broadcast. In a Mayday of course you don't even need that. I think Icom should send you on a marine radio course, Jon. I'd have said the same to Mike who seems to be mixing up his value judgements and 'common sense' with the regulations, but it seems events have overtaken him. I'm really sorry to hear that because Mike seems a decent bloke.
 
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Come off it. You don't need a licence to listen to marine SSB or VHF. You don't even need a licence to have a transmitter on the boat in the UK. You need a licence to use it to broadcast - and in a Mayday you don't even need that. I think Icom should send you on a marine radio course, Jon.

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You DO need a licence and Mike Martin has confirmed that.
As he has clearly stated in this thread I am correct in saying you need a licence to listen to the Marine Radio Serivce
Your Ships Radio Licence is your licence to fit.
Your RYA SRC or Long Range is you licence to listen or TX.

What is clear is that you have not read all the posts in this thread.

Your are coreect that in a MAYDAY you can use any and all means at you disposal to summon aid.

That is very dfferent from routine traffic.

I have been on and passed a marine radio course and am looking in the very near future in becoming and RYA instrutor.

Regards
 
I have read them all. Where does it state that the Ship's Radio Licence is a licence to fit? You don't need a licence to fit. There are boat hard standings across the country with unused boats and unused vhfs in them. Which 'licence to fit' do they need? When I take my domestic short wave radio aboard my boat and listen to Northwood Wefax or to VOLMET which licence to fit should I get then? Where does it say my LR operator's cert licences me to listen? I can't find it and I have the document open in front of me now. Or for that matter where does my ham radio licence say that? You're making it up as you go along.
 
Hi John,
I sense you are trying to bait me!

The law as it stands in the UK at this present moment, states that you MUST have Wireless Telegraphy Act (WT Act) licence to have a radio transmitter "available for use" (your word would be fitted) unless it is specifically exempted from licensing (like, for example PMR 446 or your mobile telephone).

When a boat is on the "hard" the radio should "de-commissioned" in order for a licence not to be required by law. Even though the boat is out of the water the radio if still connected to power supply and antenna is "available for use".

It is not the Operators Certificate that authorises you to use the service it is the WT Act licence. The certificate proves competence and allows you to operate.

Is that helpful?

Mike
 
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The authorites in the Bahamas (I spent some time there) have all sorts of problems with US flagged boats who try to avoid the somewhat expensive entry/exit fees. I certainly did not have a VHF licence then as the people who did it before Ofcom (it was a private co - something castle or similar) had said I do not need one out of UK waters...

I have also posted that I think the combined licence - VHF/SSB/Radar/Epirb is not unreasonable - some one has to pay the authorties to aurthorise so it should be the users.. Even I have one!!! Now!!!

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Ahh I see your confusion now!

The Ship Radio Licence process has been contracted out for some 10 years now. The first contractor was Wraycastle who then lost out to the Radio Licensing Centre who are the present contractor.

They work for me! Ofcom now but RA as was.

Mike
 
I'm not trying to bait you and I certainly meant what I wrote - I'm sorry to hear your news.

I don't know why 'my word would be 'fitted'.' It was Jon who used it. Fitted doesn't mean available for use. How would a handheld be fitted? Both of you use English in a very elastic way. How are you differentiating between 'use the service' and 'operate'? Where are these two concepts defined? My ham radio-one of Jon's offerings - is capable of receiving all marine bands in its unmodified state, straight out of the box. But it doesn't need anything more than my ham licence to be on the boat... actually it doesn't need my ham licence to be there at all! But if I used it, that's another matter. Where does it say the boat on the hard must be de-commissioned and where is there a definiton of de-commissioning? If one exists, then a radio can be decommissioned in or out of the water. The point you are proving - and it is the point that this thread started off with - is that these rules about marine radios and boats are an absolute dog's dinner.
 
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You're making it up as you go along.

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I tad Harsh I feel!
It would be very odd of me to come on here and then set out to scare the reputation of both Icom and myself!

As I said in an earlier post Icom (and others) make radio's that are wide band RX.
It does not make it legal for the user to listen to everyone and everything.

I think Mike has coverd your other points.
If he has not I am sure he will, he is good like that.

I was, am sure Mike does, trying to use wording and plain English that makes sense rather than chapter and verse from various documentation.

I can see that was wrong.

Kind regards
 
Fitted equates to installed, commissioned or "available for use" (which BTW is the first offence). In other words connected to power supply and antenna. If you re-read my post that states the law it should become clearer

A handheld is always "available" until you remove the power (battery) and antenna. Like mine which is 3 metres from where I'm sitting but my Ship Radio Licence is also here and my boat is in the back garden.

I'm sorry but you are wrong about when a licence is required and I think you may be confusing the licence with the operators certificate as well just to make things worse. Your Amateur radio licence tells you what you can access not what you can't. If you check your BR68 (Terms booklet in my Ships' parlance) you will see that it clearly tells you what you can access, there is not some hidden agreement that you can access anymore than that. This is why modifying ICOM's HAM radios to access anything other than Amateur frequencies is illegal

To sum up:

WT ACT licence to have radio equipment available for use.
Qualification (be it Amateur or Maritime) to show competence within the service and have Authority to Operate a radio within it.

Mike
 
Mike

So all those users of NASA and Lowe SSB HF receivers and RTTY receivers not to mention the little portable Sonys need to have a LR Cert since these are not household coverage sets but marine frequ receivers? In someones dreams maybe!


My licence, gained probably 25 years or more back is a 'Certificate of Competence in Radiotelephony and Authority to Operate Granted BY The Secretary Of State For The Home Department' - Restricted. I believe this covers me for both VHF and MF/HF, but not of course the DSC requirement. My SSB is an old Icom (non-DSC) so is type approved, unlike any new ones you can currently buy. I do have a DSC VHF but am so sick of the alarms I will probably refit my old VHF for next season and for the time being will not be spending a small fortune on the DSC upgrade to my licenceas I believe this would mean I have to do the new Long Range Cert to cover the SSB even though mine doesn't have DSC, nor can I buy one with DSC that is type approved in the UK/EU anyway.

My SWMBO is American. I think I will let her get a USA Cert for Ham and/or Marine as it seems much easier to do, she can then be in charge in the event I need to press transmit...

Sorry about the job news though Mike, I hope it leads to bigger and better opportunities. Maybe you could become a consultant and charge your old bosses a fortune to sort out their mess, I did that once many years back and I must say it pleased me no end to earn three times the money for 10% of the work!

Keep smiling

Robin
 
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Your Amateur radio licence tells you what you can access not what you can't. If you check your BR68 (Terms booklet in my Ships' parlance) you will see that it clearly tells you what you can access, there is not some hidden agreement that you can access anymore than that. This is why modifying ICOM's HAM radios to access anything other than Amateur frequencies is illegal

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More vague generalisation. What does 'access' mean? Most SSB radios are supplied able to receive marine bands. Modifying is not the point. There is no station licence for individuals in UK amateur radio. It's the operator who is licenced. Where does this definiton 'connected to the power supply and antenna' exist?
 
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On the VHF/SCR course the MCA are driving schools towards live radio simulators and away from PC based ones.

The thoughts being that the PC stuff has it's place but it should not be the main training aid as it is now.


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So the MCA are going for expensive bespoke simulators that can only be used for that one purpose, when they already have PC simulators that can be easily available to the majority of the public. Whats next - VHF-DSC license only available from expensive schools at £300 a day, cause the local colleges cannot afford this expensive simulator, followed by MCA moaning at the lack of certified operators.

I have a history of working with the procurement of operational simulators so I know what I am talking about.

Yet another looney decision by the idiots in charge!
 
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On the VHF/SCR course the MCA are driving schools towards live radio simulators and away from PC based ones.

The thoughts being that the PC stuff has it's place but it should not be the main training aid as it is now.


[/ QUOTE ]
So the MCA are going for expensive bespoke simulators that can only be used for that one purpose, when they already have PC simulators that can be easily available to the majority of the public. Whats next - VHF-DSC license only available from expensive schools at £300 a day, cause the local colleges cannot afford this expensive simulator, followed by MCA moaning at the lack of certified operators.

I have a history of working with the procurement of operational simulators so I know what I am talking about.

Yet another looney decision by the idiots in charge!

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Not the case at all!

As an wise old sage once said to me.....
"to assume make and Ass out of U and ME"

We take live radio's and turn them into simulators then supply them.
Simard have been doing it for a number of years based on the RD68.

We launched ours mid last year based on the M601.
In Sept we launched the M421 and now they are selling based on this unit.

They are cheaper than live, real units.
They make a very effective training tool.
Any school that has them will confirm this.
Whilst not available to the public at large they are to any RYA training school or trainer.
 
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