SSB/VHF licensing

[stevesales]

Searching the site on this subject produces (to be polite) a bit of a tatty ragbag.
I'd be interested to try to consolidate member's experiences into one posting.

To start the ball rolling
1. We all seem to be agreed that the UK (EU) licensing requirements are overly bureaucratic and therefore need circumnavigating.
2. VHF/SSB wireless in boats is not a toy but a useful safety feature.
3. It seems to me that a non US citizen can apply for a restricted US operator's license (I am doing this at the moment) - does anyone have any experience of this or of other less demanding administrations? What about the boat license ?
4. SSB/VHF only need licenses if they can transmit. No licences are now required in the UK for wireless receivers (not TV). The same aerial/matching unit is needed for good reception as for transmission. Has anyone explored the possibility of removing the connector from the 'transmit' switch ?

 

[boatmike]

Actually, to add to the question, I am shortly going to be embarking on a liveaboard in the Med. I have always paid for a UK VHF licence in home waters. Do I need one at all in the Med? if so what?

 

[Anthony]

Hi,

The fact that UK licensing of HF (both SSB and ham)is a mess is about the only thing everyone seems to agree on.

It seems some will tell you not to worry about the licensing and just use a ham as marine SSB etc, without a license (because you cant license it anyway!), whilst others think you will have your boat taken away (if I used it in my house would they conficscate my house...).

So I have the same problem as you trying to get to the bottom of it all.

Whats the restricted US operator's license, is that just for VHF? or for HF too? Personally I was happy to go do the VHF course for a day and get the UK license if that what it takes, but am less happy about the Long range cert for marine SSB plus the months of work for ham license, so any alternative option is very interesting, please tell us more.

I dont believe you need the ATU to RX only, based on other comments just a long bit of wire will work as well. However I take you point as to what defines a TX installation? Is it having the equipment on board, and at what point does it turn from not installed / RX only to a TX station. From others comments I understood that you had to be found transmitting on it to be prosicuted (although I am prepared to be wrong there!), which may not be that likly when you are offshore.

Re the addiditonal question of VHF license in med, my understanding is that yes you do still need it. As a UK vessel you are supposed to be in accordance with the UK regulations where ever you are in the world, and that includes having all the correct licenses and operators permits. It is this that help make it such a mess by the fact that a UK vessel has to have a UK radio and licenses, even if in an american marina, to have a US unit would, as I understand it, be illegal.

Sorry I have probably just added to your belief thats its a mess, rather than helping /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Looking forward to seeing any more constructive comments from others.

Anthony

 

[Talbot]

my reading of the US license is that you also need to have the US boat radio license as well, and that is not valid for a UK registered ship, and is also a lot more expensive than the UK version. Thus you gain on one license and lose on the other. Have you complained to RYA about the lack of tuition for this license, cause I have, and have also tried to get correspondence schools interested. The £300+ for the course would be much better spent on an Epirb.

 

[Sea Devil]

Legally your VHF licence should be operative where ever you are in the world - some countries ask for your call sign on their pratique papers.

Before offcom took over issuing of licences I asked their predecessors if I need one when I was in the USA? Answer No! For the next 3 years I did not have one and nobody was in the least interested - I just used the old call sign when necessasary.

When I intended sailing into UK waters I purchased another licence or Mike Martin might have boarded me!

I do not have a big problem with paying the licence fee for my VHF, SSB, EPIRB and Radar installations - there has to be some regulatory force I suppose and if we use the equipement we should pay something towards the cost of this force.

I have a major problem with the silly and out of touch requirements for operating the equipment! There is nothing in any of it more complex than a mobile phone and once you leave the UK waters the 'qualifications' are waste paper.

To sum up get the sets licensed if you are in UK waters - 1 licence - inexpensive. Possibly bother with a VHF operators licence - It is a fairly inexpensive course and will teach you the 'preferred way' to send out a MayDay which applies equelly to VHF and SSB TX. In practical terms the receiver of a mayday wants to know what the problem is and where you are. When I used mayday whilst being shot at by pirates that was all there was possible to send and it was enough......... Of course if there is more time then further information is useful to orgaised search and rescue.

The SSB course is a waste of time and money and a lot of it about equipment you will never carry in a sail boat. Certainly it will give you a wider understanding of radio but do you care? If it is a subject that interests you them become a ham. If you start worrying about the fact your set can transmitte both SSB and Ham and is therefore illegal you are probably not the right sort of person to be long distance cruising -

 

[snowleopard]

[ QUOTE ]
The SSB course is a waste of time and money and a lot of it about equipment you will never carry in a sail boat.

[/ QUOTE ]
on my course the topics were: MF/HF, VHF, DSC and Navtex, all of which i have on my boat. Inmarsat-C was optional and many people have that also.

the courses are of course unnecessarily long for most people who have a bit of prior knowledge - i would have preferred 2 days instead of 4, but i can't agree that it covered anything irrelevant.

 

[Anthony]

Thanks Bambola for the welcome injection of common sense!

As for relvence of course, I guess it comes down to exsiting experience. I have already done VHF and DSC, and have a navtex that I am very familier with, so there is only the HF part left that I am interested in. Which is why I am working thru the ham training instead (and reading up on the marine specifics aswell). Its just a shame nobody offers the ham training as a week long, rather than once a week over months,becasue that I would happily pay for!

Surprised we havn't had input from Ofcom yet, he seems to normally like laying down the law here.

Anthony

 

[Talbot]

[ QUOTE ]
Surprised we havn't had input from Ofcom yet, he seems to normally like laying down the law here.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you read the posts carefully, it is obvious that previous posts from our Ofcom correspondent have been aimed purely at educating us on the legal position. He has very carefully refrained from any personal opinion.

 

[jerryat]

Yes, I agree. Mike Martin puts his arguments and information forward in a very sensible and friendly way considering some of us are regularly breaking the law. Not me, of course Mike (grovel, grovel!) /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Cheers
Jerry

 

[CharlesM]

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Talbot Said>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If you read the posts carefully, it is obvious that previous posts from our Ofcom correspondent have been aimed purely at educating us on the legal position. He has very carefully refrained from any personal opinion.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I second that

We can only benifit from Mike's (OFCOM chappie) input as to what the law is. We may not like what it is, but it certainly ios usefull to know exactly what we dislike.

Charles

 

[Sea Devil]

When you get across the pond you can get hold of the American Ham version of the test - there is a cd that someone will burn for you with questions and answers on it. The test is multichoice and the cd has practice bits for the morse I think. Much easier I am told than the Brit version and people/quaified testers in Trini, Venezuala and St Lucia I think run the test every so often. Some what less heart ache and by then the experience you will have had operating you know a lot more of it... Several european friends took the ham test in this way.

Re ------------------The SSB course is a waste of time and money and a lot of it about equipment you will never carry in a sail boat.----------------------- My mistake - I thought the satalite radio communications stuff was oblibitory!

It is still an awful lot of time and money to be instructed in VHF, DSC and Navtex, DSC which you will never use - Navtex comes in a box with an instruction card and if you have not done a VHF course and you are thinking of going off into the blue then I suspect you have not got quite enough experience.

If you have stacks of dosh and time then courses can be fun and interesting but if you havn't do you really need one to operate an ssb???? I still maintain a mobile phone is more challanging and do you really need the background knowlage to operate one?

 

[Anthony]

>If you read the posts carefully, it is obvious that previous posts from our Ofcom >correspondent have been aimed purely at educating us on the legal position. He >has very carefully refrained from any personal opinion.


Ok, fair point, I take it back. I was taking my frustration with the system out on an induvidual which was wrong and unfair, I apologise to all.

Anthony

 

[Talbot]

[ QUOTE ]
The test is multichoice and the cd has practice bits for the morse I think.

[/ QUOTE ]
Morse used to be the hardest bit of the test IMHO, but not needed for the UK version of the test these days!

 

[gi7kmc]

[ QUOTE ]

Morse used to be the hardest bit of the test IMHO, but not needed for the UK version of the test these days!

[/ QUOTE ]
There is still a requirement to know morse but you only have to recieve 20 to 30 characters. You are allowed to write the letters down as dots and dashes and then use a supplied table to convert them to letters.

see http://www.rsgb.org/foundation/questionsandanswers.htm

Jonathan

 

[Benbow]

...and you can retry as often as you like and discuss any problems with the instructor - basicaly its impossible to fail. So effectively the morse requirement has been dropped.

 

[JonBrooks]

[ QUOTE ]
!
Surprised we havn't had input from Ofcom yet, he seems to normally like laying down the law here.

Anthony

[/ QUOTE ]

IMHO....a tad harsh.
Mike takes the stance of imforming you what is right and wrong.
Very good at it he is to.

I don't ever recall him "laying down the law" in the manner your post suggests.

Regards

 

[Talbot]

Well if that is not a definition of not really needed, but obeying the strict letter of the law - what is? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[JonBrooks]

[ QUOTE ]
Searching the site on this subject produces (to be polite) a bit of a tatty ragbag.
I'd be interested to try to consolidate member's experiences into one posting.

To start the ball rolling
1. We all seem to be agreed that the UK (EU) licensing requirements are overly bureaucratic and therefore need circumnavigating.
2. VHF/SSB wireless in boats is not a toy but a useful safety feature.
3. It seems to me that a non US citizen can apply for a restricted US operator's license (I am doing this at the moment) - does anyone have any experience of this or of other less demanding administrations? What about the boat license ?
4. SSB/VHF only need licenses if they can transmit. No licences are now required in the UK for wireless receivers (not TV). The same aerial/matching unit is needed for good reception as for transmission. Has anyone explored the possibility of removing the connector from the 'transmit' switch ?

[/ QUOTE ]

1. This is not just a UK issue this is an EU issue.

2. Could not agree more but needs to be done right.

3. I am sure that would not cover you on a UK/EU vessel only a non US Citizen on a US flagged vessel.

4. The law say's you can only listen to those channels/ frequencies that you are authourised to do. To be listen to marine VHF or SSB you would need the correct operators cert so you may as well have the full working set. There is a very good download on the Ofcom website about scanners but is the same for listening to any radio other than broadcast or Ham

 

[Mike_Martin]

I was going to answer this but as Ofcom has informed me of my inpending redundancy I won't bother.

I wonder what it'll be like when someone who doesn't know anything about boats or using them is responsible.

Mike

 

[JonBrooks]

[ QUOTE ]
I was going to answer this but as Ofcom has informed me of my inpending redundancy I won't bother.

I wonder what it'll be like when someone who doesn't know anything about boats or using them is responsible.

Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

We are dooooommmmeddddd!