Blueboatman
Well-known member
Some more waffle here .
Good journalists used to piece a story together from several sources .
Richard M Montgomery
Good journalists used to piece a story together from several sources .
Richard M Montgomery
SS Richard Montgomery
- Thread starter FWB
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Sandy
Well-known member
Elessar
Well-known member
No oops. The ground level pics give a different perspective and are worth seeing too. And yes I agree!Indeed it is. OOPs
I think somebody got their sums wrong that day...
Capt Popeye
Well-known member
I when the Medway was my own ground some years back always reguarded the Montgomery as in the mouth of the river Medway geographically but within the Thames Estuary generally .
Oft thought when visiting on the Isle Grain (NE Kent) earth moving equipment could reclaim that part of the Thames Estuary without too much troubles , and then set about recovering the ordanance from Montgomery ; yea all fly stuff I know , but the masts appeared quite close to the Fort on the Isle Grain
Oft thought when visiting on the Isle Grain (NE Kent) earth moving equipment could reclaim that part of the Thames Estuary without too much troubles , and then set about recovering the ordanance from Montgomery ; yea all fly stuff I know , but the masts appeared quite close to the Fort on the Isle Grain
johnalison
Well-known member
This is what one bomb can do. Fortunately over a year since I last sailed over it.
WW2 'earthquake' bomb explodes in Poland during attempt to defuse it
WW2 'earthquake' bomb explodes in Poland during attempt to defuse it
Sandy
Well-known member
And that was only a Tallboy, if it had been a Grandslam it would have been far more impressive!
penfold
Well-known member
That's possibly one of the more practical means of doing it; suction dredge a few hundred thousand tonnes of sand and create a berm around it, pump the water out and then deal with it with remotely operated equipment. If it went off it's a bloody big bang but no tsunami causing millions of £s of improvements to Sheerness.
Keith 66
Well-known member
If you would like to read some facts on the subject heres the link to the site that gives the regular survey reports, the sonar photos are fascinating & show what they have to deal with, The SS Richard Montgomery: Information and survey reports,
Tomahawk
Well-known member
I used to sail with a chap from RAOD ... on the Mudway no less. Jhis tales of getting it wrong were enough to encourage a cautious approach to the thing.
The one about thinking it would be Ok to pop the warhead of the 1000 bomb..... and the phones going off even before the mud had finished falling back to earth was very memorable.
The one about thinking it would be Ok to pop the warhead of the 1000 bomb..... and the phones going off even before the mud had finished falling back to earth was very memorable.
Blueboatman
Well-known member
Didn’t Boris want to build an airport on the Estuary sands at one time ??
No nearby pile of old ordnance would have stopped that pipe dream
No nearby pile of old ordnance would have stopped that pipe dream
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Vicarage
Member
It is technically within the Medway area of control, hence why Peel Ports are responsible for stopping it go bang. Thames Estuary would probably be fine as well.
Frogmogman
Well-known member
He’s incapable of seeing a stretch of water without wanting to build something over/under/in it.
oldmanofthehills
Well-known member
The start of the Thames Estuary is is sometimes defined as the line between Southend and Sheerness. SS Montgomery is slightly east of the simple line thus in the estuary. Wiki lists her as in the estuary.
However the Thames estuary can be considered as the entire Tideway up to Teddington lock but that definition would not fit with how we regard any other river in the UK where tidal limits are well beyond what most would consider the estuary. To claim Chelsea Reach is estuarine is odd to say the least
However the Thames estuary can be considered as the entire Tideway up to Teddington lock but that definition would not fit with how we regard any other river in the UK where tidal limits are well beyond what most would consider the estuary. To claim Chelsea Reach is estuarine is odd to say the least
Applescruffs
Member
That is a truly excellent set of reports and photos, the sonar imaging especially so.
Many thanks for posting.
Cheers.
Habebty
Well-known member
I guess that after a previous attempt to salvage a munitions ship, rather put them off having another go! ....
SS Kielce - Wikipedia
Although, I suspect a lot of the RM explosives may well be inert now?
SS Kielce - Wikipedia
Although, I suspect a lot of the RM explosives may well be inert now?
mjcoon
Well-known member
The chemical energy in the explosives may still be there if there is no way for it to leak away slowly; just less stable...
oldmanofthehills
Well-known member
Some of the explosive material such as ammonium picrate is water soluble and if there was free flow of waer, would leach away. However its not so much the explosives maybe, but their detonators. One can burn TNT safely but a percussive blast sets it off with a bang. So if the detonator mixture decays or is washed away or the channels that lead flame front to main charge are blocked then the thing is safe. .
I would hope the cargo manifest would list type of explosive, manufacturers and type of detonator, but in the chaos of a war such information might be gappy
penfold
Well-known member
There will be a full manifest held by MARCOM or whatever they're called these days; she loaded in Philadelphia and was due to unload in Cherbourg.
Keith 66
Well-known member
A few years back i had cause to use RLC Bomb disposal unit (Colchester) after finding a grenade under our house during building works.
It was blown up on the marshes down the creek. Talking to the sergeant in charge was an eye opener, they get at least 6 shouts a week.
A little online searching found that the British Geological Survey records approximately half a dozen unexplained underwater explosions every year, most of which are put down as due to unexploded or dumped munitions.
Another article explained it thus, One of the main causes is the fuse detonator compound, Lead azide was a common ingredient as it is inherently relatively stable. Unfortunately decay of seals on fuses & casings can allow sea water in, electrolysis can then take place between iron & non ferrous parts in fuses.
The effect is that some on the lead azide fuse compound can decay & copper azide can form. This is highly unstable & can be set off by pressure changes, vibration or even detonate spontaneously.
This is probably why old munition dumps are left well alone!
It was blown up on the marshes down the creek. Talking to the sergeant in charge was an eye opener, they get at least 6 shouts a week.
A little online searching found that the British Geological Survey records approximately half a dozen unexplained underwater explosions every year, most of which are put down as due to unexploded or dumped munitions.
Another article explained it thus, One of the main causes is the fuse detonator compound, Lead azide was a common ingredient as it is inherently relatively stable. Unfortunately decay of seals on fuses & casings can allow sea water in, electrolysis can then take place between iron & non ferrous parts in fuses.
The effect is that some on the lead azide fuse compound can decay & copper azide can form. This is highly unstable & can be set off by pressure changes, vibration or even detonate spontaneously.
This is probably why old munition dumps are left well alone!
Elessar
Well-known member
Agree with both points. But I don’t agree that it isn’t part of the river Thames. Wouldn’t normally care but someone was belittling someone for saying it wasn’t in the river Thames. And it is.