SPX5 pilot- settings. (If you are happy with yours!)

[skyflyer]

There is a lot on these forums about the Raymarine SPX5 and how it compares to previous ST4000 etc both mechanically and computer wise.

I fitted one last year on a 32' sailing yacht and have been somewhat underwhelmed (as have many others I note!) - it is the wheelpilot version by the way.

I calibrated it using the Autolearn feature which is of course done in fairly calm conditions on flat water under power with the sails down - so hardly representative. On the other hand if you had the sails raised then would you do the calibration into wind, cross wind or downwind?

Anyway, it steers like a drunken sailor and weaves about the intended course and is slow to respond when knocked off heading by waves or wind. I upped the sensitivity which makes it respond quicker but it still 'hunts' the correct heading. In a flat calm with sails down if you try and make it steer to a waypoint it still weaves around the course, S-turning all the way.

I wondered if anyone who has this model on a similar sized boat could give me a transcription of the settings that are working for them, ie rudder gain, counter rudder and so on.

I am seriously wondering if the much advertised 'yaw sensor' in the box of electronics is faulty as the boat performs no better than with the old ST4000 as far as I can see.

Rip it out and fit a ram acting on the quadrant is an obvious but unaffordable solution, I'd prefer to try some new settings first

Thanks

 

[prv]

Replacing the wheelpilot with a quadrant ram won't help if it doesn't know where it wants the rudder in the first place.

I assume you have checked such a basic thing, but the symptoms sound very similar to how my pilot behaved when my dad stowed a load of steel beer tins right next to the fluxgate compass...

Pete

 

[maby]

turn down the sensitivity and turn up the damping - the autolearn settings are definitely too twitchy. That said, I would not expect to use it for long term auto steering - as far as I was concerned, it was an aid to single handing, allowing me to leave the helm for a few minutes to trim the sails, complete the log or fix a quick snack. If you want to be able to set the pilot and go off duty for a few hours, get a linear pilot - the wheelpilot is a significantly cheaper option that will take over adequately for a few minutes.

BTW - ours was on a Jeanneau SO33i

 

[prv]

If you want to be able to set the pilot and go off duty for a few hours, get a linear pilot - the wheelpilot is a significantly cheaper option that will take over adequately for a few minutes.

No question that a linear drive is stronger and more reliable than a wheelpilot - but unless the wheelpilot is slipping or stalling, they should both steer the boat equally well. How well the system holds a course is up to the computer, not the drive unit. How long you ask it to steer is also not really relevant - if it will work for five minutes then it will work for an hour, and if it works for an hour it will work for a day as long as you have the volts and the conditions don't exceed its limits. Our rattly old wheelpilot has steered us all the way across the Channel and back, including the top end of a six off Cherbourg. No hand steering required at all.

I'm still fitting a linear drive this winter, though

Pete

 

[skyflyer]

No the fluxgate is good - we get very accurate bearings from it on all headings so that isnt the issue.

I only use it for things like putting up the sails and nipping below to put the kettle on or tweaking the sheets etc when nobody else to helm but it is not reliable. I have tried it both for steering a heading and also for keeping a constant angle to the wind. In either instance it is pretty slow to react. If I up the sensitivity (say to 6 or 7) the wheel motor works hard and there a lot of minor adjustments back and forth non stop but if the boat swings off heading it will still take a long time to correct.

Last weekend I was having trouble so when I put it back on standby I firstly noted that the boat was wll balanced with a very small amount of weather helm, (centre mark on rim of wheel displaced about 6 inches off centre) and in order to steer a steady course all I ever had to do was keep an eye on the heading and move the wheel fractional amounts - of course a human is quite good at sensing movement and anticipating what is about to happen and compensate accordingly - but then I rather thought a grand's worth of electronics might do the same!

It's like it doesn't notice a change of course until we are at least 10 to 20 degrees off, then applies a tiny amount of rudder to correct and slowly realises this isn't enough, so applies a bit more, then a bit more by which time it has overcooked it so we come swinging back through the desired course and out the other side!

As I said, I'd like to know the settings which have given others some success and I will give it a try with them.

Or as its all under warranty send the whole lot back and ask for it to be fixed - 'cos if it isnt broke then its not fit for purpose IMHO!

 

[Boathook]

My spx5 does a good job but the motion (being a cat) throws the accelerometers? out. The unit does learn about the boat and I have tweaked the settings on mine to suit my boat. The default response level I have set is 3 which is good for me. The one other item that I have is the rudder feedback sensor. It is worthwhile letting the unit steer for quite a period and then look at settings once it has 'learned'. Don't forget that unless you have a windvane connected to the unit it won't keep a steady angle to the wind if the wind alters and the wind does vary by 10 degrees. Check that you have mounted the electronics correctly as per the instructions, as this will affect the sensors.

 

[Jabs]

If you had it commissioned by a dealer and have the" on board" warranty, get them to look at it

I fitted the system with linear actuator to a heavy Contessa and it works perfectly, good enough for an hours kip!

Tony

 

[skyflyer]

I think with a linear actuator most people seem happy - its with the wheel pilot that there is an issue. Maybe it would be improved by fitting the rudder position sensor?

 

[prv]

I think with a linear actuator most people seem happy - its with the wheel pilot that there is an issue. Maybe it would be improved by fitting the rudder position sensor?

Quite possibly. Mine has that.

Pete

 

[maby]

Performance will also be dependent on the gearing of your wheel - the wheelpilot is not particularly fast in operation and, if you have a relatively high ratio on the drive from the wheel to the rudder, it is not going to be very fast with adjustments. How much backlash do you have in the steering? Again, a human helmsman learns to adjust to compensate for that, but the wheelpilot cannot. They certainly have a reputation for being rather fragile - I never expected ours to helm for more than a few minutes at a time.

 

[FWB]

I think with a linear actuator most people seem happy - its with the wheel pilot that there is an issue. Maybe it would be improved by fitting the rudder position sensor?

Absolutely!
I fitted a rudder ref unit when I had the ST4000 and kept it for the S1 (older version of SPX5). I have tiller steering as you know but I reckon these autopilots do benefit from the ref unit, even though it may say on the tin that one is not necessary.

 

[yachtbits]

Dylan has "hit it on the head".

The ST4000, S1, S1G and the SPX-5 wheel pilots ALL work significantly better with a rudder feedback unit (RFU). Yes the SPX-5 is capable of operating in many circumstances without the RFU, in some cases one just can not be fitted. In one case we had to fit one inside the pedestal and attach the arm to the chain.

Without the RFU fitted, the pilot has to apply some rudder and wait to see how the boat responds, before deciding to either applying more or reduce it. The pilot just does not know where the rudder is, so has to do a bit of guesswork. The SPX-5 has a Rate Gyro which measures the rate of turn, but this is still only measuring what is happening.

Once an RFU is fitted, you have "closed the control loop". The pilot knows exactly where the rudder is, so doesn't have to wait for the boat to respond. You will notice a big difference when surfing down wind. The other thing that should always be remembered, and this applies to all sail boat pilots, is trim your sails to get rid of all lee and weather helm. This reduces loading on the autopilot drive, making it easier for the pilot to respond, and it saves power!

Without question, buy and fit an RFU, the part number is M81105 and is going to cost you in the region of £170 inc vat. Then re-commission the entire system, compass, RFU, autolearn, the whole lot.

regards
Kevin
Raymarine Service Agent and Approved Installer

 

[skyflyer]

Thanks everyone - Kevin, am I correct in assuming that the RRU has to be set so the arm of the unit moves through the same angle as the rudder?

 

[chubby]

Apologies for thread drift but as you are a raymarine specialist, have you seen the thread about tacktick wind systems dropping out and are you able to offer any technical insight?

Dylan has "hit it on the head".

The ST4000, S1, S1G and the SPX-5 wheel pilots ALL work significantly better with a rudder feedback unit (RFU). Yes the SPX-5 is capable of operating in many circumstances without the RFU, in some cases one just can not be fitted. In one case we had to fit one inside the pedestal and attach the arm to the chain.

Without the RFU fitted, the pilot has to apply some rudder and wait to see how the boat responds, before deciding to either applying more or reduce it. The pilot just does not know where the rudder is, so has to do a bit of guesswork. The SPX-5 has a Rate Gyro which measures the rate of turn, but this is still only measuring what is happening.

Once an RFU is fitted, you have "closed the control loop". The pilot knows exactly where the rudder is, so doesn't have to wait for the boat to respond. You will notice a big difference when surfing down wind. The other thing that should always be remembered, and this applies to all sail boat pilots, is trim your sails to get rid of all lee and weather helm. This reduces loading on the autopilot drive, making it easier for the pilot to respond, and it saves power!

Without question, buy and fit an RFU, the part number is M81105 and is going to cost you in the region of £170 inc vat. Then re-commission the entire system, compass, RFU, autolearn, the whole lot.

regards
Kevin
Raymarine Service Agent and Approved Installer

 

[dunedin]

Absolutely!
I fitted a rudder ref unit when I had the ST4000 and kept it for the S1 (older version of SPX5). I have tiller steering as you know but I reckon these autopilots do benefit from the ref unit, even though it may say on the tin that one is not necessary.

I have an ST4000 and it has been useless for the past 2 seasons, after replacing the wheel drive. It has very drunken reactions, for anything other than motoring in a mirror calm. It is actually better when sailing to put in standby - the locked wheel is less damage than the autopilot.
The dealer fitted a rudder reference, but this has made no improvement at all. So not necessarily a miracle cure for all

 

[wiggy]

I have SPX5 with tiller steering, it works faultlessly, chop out the wheel and add a proper steering stick

 

[skyflyer]

I have an ST4000 and it has been useless for the past 2 seasons, after replacing the wheel drive. It has very drunken reactions, for anything other than motoring in a mirror calm. It is actually better when sailing to put in standby - the locked wheel is less damage than the autopilot.
The dealer fitted a rudder reference, but this has made no improvement at all. So not necessarily a miracle cure for all

I would like to think that it is just a matter of having the correct settings: I am getting so much conflicting info (including from Raymarine authorised installers) that I am not sure what to believe! Clearly tiller steering pilot works fine. However you get a huge variation of opinion from those with wheel steering from 'perfect' to 'useless'.

Looking atother threads concerning raymarine equipment there does seem to be a 'trend' of faulty units (ie poor quality control) with people sending them back and the replacement unit being fine. This is all well and good when your depth guage simply fails to read anything, or your windspeed is reading 55 knots when its F3, but with this autopilot it is so tricky to know what is the specified performance.

What i do know is that at the LBS 2012 when we bought it the guys on the Raymarine stand said it would be a game changer from the old ST4000 and that it was suiatbel for our boat and that it would happily cope downwind in a quartering sea. This brings to mind the words 'not fit for purpose' and sales of goods Act.

 

[skyflyer]

It has been suggested that I am asking too much for the autopilot to navigate to a waypoint without it snaking around the desired course (motoring with sails down). I dont accept this. the GPS plots where the boat is and wherethe desired track line is and it even knows the wind velocity. It is pretty simple maths (and hence electronics) to wok an algorithm that says something like : -if more than 1 minute at current speed from crossing the intended track line, motor an intercepting track 30 degrees to the line. When within 20 seconds of the line, make the angle 20 degrees, when within 10 seconds make the angle 10 degrees, once on track make the angle zero. If boat starts drifting off track turn 5 degrees towards it. If error doesnt reduce, turn a further 5 degrees - and so on.
When making heading corrections the pilot does so n short staccato burst, rather than slowly winding on enough wheel angle to counter whatever swing the boat has experienced.

It's a level of computing that is somewhat below the average smartphone costing one third of the price of the pilot!

Ho hum!

I am inclined to remove the unit and send it back to RM under warranty. If they test it and find it to be not faulty then I have to conclude that it was not fit for the purpose for which it was sold.

 

[guernseyman]

My SPX5 wheelpilot works fine all the way from St Martin's Point to Ploumanac'h. I use the lowest sensitivity because I can't bear to see it correcting for each wave we surmount.

 

[yachtbits]

Apologies for thread drift but as you are a raymarine specialist, have you seen the thread about tacktick wind systems dropping out and are you able to offer any technical insight?

I'll read the other thread.