holly1
Well-Known Member
Anyone ever made one to fit on outboard bracket or similar as a get you home solution
SPARE RUDDER
- Thread starter holly1
- Start date
sailorman
Well-Known Member
mine is the "Forepeak" sole all drilled out ready to be mated to the Spi pole /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
Phoenix of Hamble
Well-Known Member
Its one of my concern areas....
We don't have a spinnaker pole on board, so never quite worked out how i'd rig a jury set up.... loads of soleboard we could use, but nothing to fix 'em to!!!!!!
Long term plan is to buy a hydrovane which also acts as emergency rudder, but its a lot of money....
I looked at the price of spinnaker/whisper poles, and when i'd picked myself back off the floor, decided to review other options!
We don't have a spinnaker pole on board, so never quite worked out how i'd rig a jury set up.... loads of soleboard we could use, but nothing to fix 'em to!!!!!!
Long term plan is to buy a hydrovane which also acts as emergency rudder, but its a lot of money....
I looked at the price of spinnaker/whisper poles, and when i'd picked myself back off the floor, decided to review other options!
holly1
Well-Known Member
Would you rope the spinny pole onto the transom like an oar ?
sailorman
Well-Known Member
Steering Oar only
halcyon
Well-Known Member
Our boat came with a 10 foot sweep, I have also found a bracket for it, as yet not located the fixing holes though. The oar also doubles as a booming out pole for the genoa, and I presume you could row if the engine and wind failed.
Brian
Brian
Talbot
Well-Known Member
spare rudder design will depend on boat shape, and height of gunwhale above water. The length of the spinny pole is another factor.
On one boat where we had to make an emergency rudder in mid channel, we had no trouble wit the addition of a locker lid as a rudder blade, using a number of cable ties as the means of holding it together. We used rope around the backstay fitting in a figure of eight around the spinnaker pole in order to stop the pole slipping downwards.
So far so good, now came the difficult part. The shortness of the pole meant that in order to get any height above the transom in order to get sufficient purchase and leverage, the pole had to be much nearer to vertical than horizontal. Therefore instead of pushing the pole sideways to turn the boat, we needed to rotate the spinaker pole. We had nothing really suitable, the longest item was a spanner, but this had very little mechanical advantage. We had to rotate helm every 15 minutes, luckily we had a crew of 7 able bodied chaps.
/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
On one boat where we had to make an emergency rudder in mid channel, we had no trouble wit the addition of a locker lid as a rudder blade, using a number of cable ties as the means of holding it together. We used rope around the backstay fitting in a figure of eight around the spinnaker pole in order to stop the pole slipping downwards.
So far so good, now came the difficult part. The shortness of the pole meant that in order to get any height above the transom in order to get sufficient purchase and leverage, the pole had to be much nearer to vertical than horizontal. Therefore instead of pushing the pole sideways to turn the boat, we needed to rotate the spinaker pole. We had nothing really suitable, the longest item was a spanner, but this had very little mechanical advantage. We had to rotate helm every 15 minutes, luckily we had a crew of 7 able bodied chaps.
/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
thalassa
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
spare rudder design will depend on boat shape, and height of gunwhale above water. The length of the spinny pole is another factor. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
My rudder is a lifting blade. I've got a spare emergency one (tested!) which doubles as... the cockpit locker floor. A factor which has determined the shape for the major part.
spare rudder design will depend on boat shape, and height of gunwhale above water. The length of the spinny pole is another factor. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
My rudder is a lifting blade. I've got a spare emergency one (tested!) which doubles as... the cockpit locker floor. A factor which has determined the shape for the major part.
Billjratt
Well-Known Member
We've got a huge freeboard at the back so I would use the drogue on a bridle across the transom or, if reaching, even further forward.
Goldie
Well-Known Member
Less of the 'we' Bill - Cath will have something to say about that!! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
VicS
Well-Known Member
Learn to sail it without a rudder. Remember doing it on a Yotmasher course. Couldnt quite get a Fulmar with full main to gybe but it would sail in any direction just about and tack easily. They reckoned they could do MOB recoveries with the rudder lashed in their old Co32s
oldsaltoz
Well-Known Member
Well stated VicS,
Every skipper should be able to lash the helm and still control the heading by sail adjustment, practice makes perfect and try this method in varying conditions.
On our last boat ( a monohull) our emergency rudder was the bosun's chair, a small slab or ply with holes pre drilled and 'U' bolts to fir the spinney pole. On our present Cat we have a weighted drogue and bridle.
Avagoodweekend......
Every skipper should be able to lash the helm and still control the heading by sail adjustment, practice makes perfect and try this method in varying conditions.
On our last boat ( a monohull) our emergency rudder was the bosun's chair, a small slab or ply with holes pre drilled and 'U' bolts to fir the spinney pole. On our present Cat we have a weighted drogue and bridle.
Avagoodweekend......
William_H
Well-Known Member
I don' think the comments about "learn to sail without a rudder" are really helpful. Different boats have different degrees of steerability with sails. By all means try it but you may be disappointed.
This also assumes that you will have both main and foresail up and workinng. Rudders are however more likely to be lost in bad conditions when you may have reduced or removed main or jib.
So on any long voyage I think it wise to think about emergency rudder.
Using an outboard bracket may seem a good idea however most o/b brackets are well above the water and just 20cms from top to bottom. For a rudder you need attachment (pintle) of the blade very low near or under the water and another up high to cope with the huge side load when trying to turn the boat.
I think if you had a step or similar at water level that would be a better attachment point. A blade could be roped on to the bottom step as a hinge or pintle and similar near the deck level. It would be necessary to have a tiller of some sort available for attachment to the blade.
A high aspect ratio (deep) rudder will work better with less tiller load but more pintle load than a low aspect ratio (or an oar attached at the gunwhale) which has light pintle loads but much greater tiller load. An ideal arrangment might be an oar mounted vertically with two pintle attaments and a means to twist the oar to steer. (tiller)
My rudder failures have been a blade delaminate a long time ago and a lower pintle attachment came loose on transom hung rudder.
I would certainly rather have a standby emergency rudder than steer by sails. olewill
This also assumes that you will have both main and foresail up and workinng. Rudders are however more likely to be lost in bad conditions when you may have reduced or removed main or jib.
So on any long voyage I think it wise to think about emergency rudder.
Using an outboard bracket may seem a good idea however most o/b brackets are well above the water and just 20cms from top to bottom. For a rudder you need attachment (pintle) of the blade very low near or under the water and another up high to cope with the huge side load when trying to turn the boat.
I think if you had a step or similar at water level that would be a better attachment point. A blade could be roped on to the bottom step as a hinge or pintle and similar near the deck level. It would be necessary to have a tiller of some sort available for attachment to the blade.
A high aspect ratio (deep) rudder will work better with less tiller load but more pintle load than a low aspect ratio (or an oar attached at the gunwhale) which has light pintle loads but much greater tiller load. An ideal arrangment might be an oar mounted vertically with two pintle attaments and a means to twist the oar to steer. (tiller)
My rudder failures have been a blade delaminate a long time ago and a lower pintle attachment came loose on transom hung rudder.
I would certainly rather have a standby emergency rudder than steer by sails. olewill
VicS
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I don' think the comments about "learn to sail without a rudder" are really helpful
[/ QUOTE ] Sorry Will it was said slightly tongue in cheek but a well balanced cruising boat should sail without its rudder and be pretty well controllable, as the Contessa 32s were. Even the Fulmar could be sailed around a fairly busy anchorage in lightish winds.
Id be the first to admit that my boat, and a good few other bilge keelers, could not be realistically sailed for any significant distance without its rudder.
This is what happened to an identical boat 30 or 40 miles from land in strong winds. I guess they would have been glad of a spare rudder. In the event they dropped the sails and motored, steering with the outboard.
I don' think the comments about "learn to sail without a rudder" are really helpful
[/ QUOTE ] Sorry Will it was said slightly tongue in cheek but a well balanced cruising boat should sail without its rudder and be pretty well controllable, as the Contessa 32s were. Even the Fulmar could be sailed around a fairly busy anchorage in lightish winds.
Id be the first to admit that my boat, and a good few other bilge keelers, could not be realistically sailed for any significant distance without its rudder.
This is what happened to an identical boat 30 or 40 miles from land in strong winds. I guess they would have been glad of a spare rudder. In the event they dropped the sails and motored, steering with the outboard.
rogerthebodger
Well-Known Member
SCANMAR do one here
In designing my new yacht I considered this and it is a requirement for me to get approval from the RSA MCA to have an emergency tiller but not complete rudder I have included fittings to have an emergency rudder shaft fitting and use floor as blade.
You also ned to look at the type of rudder you have. Is there any protection from the keel / skeg and if if fails how will it fail before desiging on the type needed.
In designing my new yacht I considered this and it is a requirement for me to get approval from the RSA MCA to have an emergency tiller but not complete rudder I have included fittings to have an emergency rudder shaft fitting and use floor as blade.
You also ned to look at the type of rudder you have. Is there any protection from the keel / skeg and if if fails how will it fail before desiging on the type needed.
holly1
Well-Known Member
Thanx for your ideas very interesting.I would like to reasure some people that i can steer my yacht with its sails but i also enjoy discussing IDEAS on this forum
PuffTheMagicDragon
Well-Known Member
Whatever you do, make sure that it works with the people on board, and not only in calm conditions. The crew of Loki had a system of two drogues on board and had assured me that they could use it. Loki was a new boat, very high budget, with a professional crew.
Faced with an F8 - F9 they lost their rudder (carbon fibre) and found that they could not control the boat. They could not sail upwind and, fifteen miles off of a lee shore we had to have them airlifted, fortunately with no loss of life. Loki was left anchored to await better weather.
No one likes to see such sights, ever.
These were the conditions at that time. This boat is Cippa Lippa.
Faced with an F8 - F9 they lost their rudder (carbon fibre) and found that they could not control the boat. They could not sail upwind and, fifteen miles off of a lee shore we had to have them airlifted, fortunately with no loss of life. Loki was left anchored to await better weather.
No one likes to see such sights, ever.
These were the conditions at that time. This boat is Cippa Lippa.
