South of France

[Magnum]

Having accepted the very kind offer from another forum member of staying onboard his boat in the South of France last weekend I've decided I'm moving Magnum II out there next July. Had a super weekend - great company, incredibly generous bunch of people, loved every minute of it - even waking up on the flybridge coming in on one engine cos we'd nearly run out of fuel.

Thanks guys, you may have just changed mine and Mrs Magnum's life forever.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.magnumyacht.net>http://www.magnumyacht.net</A> - Princess P42

 

[tcm]

Re: The learning curve

Well i must say you're going at this with suitable vigour, Magnum. This time last year, you ordered a princess 42 as first boat, went out and about in 2004, end of season order a princess 67. Yeehah.

My favourite bit of the weekend was Mrs Magnum who blew us all away with the late-nite car discussion. See, if Magnum gets a Murcielago that he's thinking about, well, see then she mite get a Gallardo to go with it! And what did i think of the idea, hm? Oh, erm gweep,well ahem, i said, I think that'll be obvious totally manky and rubbish! Or perhaps indeed, um, not very rubbish at all. Sadly, she says "some people are being a bit horrid about it." Oh, tsk, what a total pain eh? I just can't imagine why.


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[robind]

Re: The learning curve

I dont read your horrid posts about Magnum and his boats/cars because you dont have a profile, and your too greedy placing so many posts. ))
Rob

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[mjf]

So what are you saying, there is a waiting list in the Uk marinas for 50ft+ boats but you can just pitch up in SoF and go boating big style?

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[Magnum]

It's different out there. Berths are bought leasehold and they aren't cheap. Also a 50ft boat might be big in the UK but it's small over there.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.magnumyacht.net>http://www.magnumyacht.net</A> - Princess P42

 

[tcm]

yes indeedy. The only quite large fly in the ointment is that to bounce to the front of the waiting list requires you to buy the lease on a berth, which for a 15metre boat might be £100k ish.

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[jfm]

Just back from France. Put all the winter covers on the boat yesterday, said goodbye to crew, all a bit sad really. Most other boats were covered up or in process of. WD40ed everything per tcm instructions so it all stinks. Sea was very calm and still, some rain showers but 17deg ish. Filled the fuel tanks for the winter, and then checked the Hythe fuel thread to compare French/UK/Guernsey prices <G>

 

[mjf]

But I guess when you want to revert to the row boat in the UK you simply sell on and ship out.

Do the mooring you buy/lease appreciate?

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[Deleted User YDKXO]

I think I'm right in saying that some of these leases are now less than 20yrs long. What happens when the lease runs out? Does the leaseholder have any rights or is he simply chucked off and a new lease sold to the highest bidder?
Presumably, the value of the lease diminishes as the end of the lease period approaches or am I misunderstanding the situation?

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[EME]

I guess the first thing to say is that prices are still rising , particularly for 15m plus berths so people are not worrying yet.


There are as far as I can tell 2 'leashold systems' in the South of France.
The first is based upon A 'Coproprietee' sysem where each berthholder and the local businesses in the port complex own shares in a company which itself has the leasehold rights from the local council. Obviously hotels. restaurants etc all have an interest in the continuing success at that rate.

The second is where each berth is a genuine lease in its own right where the leashold interest is again granted by the council with a mgt company running the port ( I think Antibes is like this, others will confirm).

Noone knows what will happen at the end of these leases ... as they were all built around the same time and none have runout yet ! I think Port Gallice and Beaulieu (little port) were the first ; whichever it is, still around 12 yrs to run ??

What is sure is that there will not be a great social upheaval with valueless leases as there is just too much money down there for that to happen .. opinion differs , small freehold payments, 'Occupation rights for owner's life'.. the councils have to make some dosh out of it but how and what remains anyone's guess so far.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue>I am WHAT I say I am</font color=blue>

 

[jfm]

Many are about 20 years, Antibes has 19 years left

But there's too much negative karma in your post Deleted User OK, at end of term leaseholder has no rights. But all commensense economic logic says that existing leaseholders will be offered renewals then. The whole town depends on the boat industry so why wouldn't the council just renew? There are 1100 boats in Antibes so seems mad to chuckem out and try to get 1100 new ones

As for price, no -one knows, but again commonsense says the bulk renewal price for 1100 boats will be much less than the individual prices at which the dozen or so that are sold each year change hands. Individual sales of berths fetch top dollar becos you only need one punter - if you are selling 1100 then you need to discount - off the top of my head I'd guess about 50% of the price that a single berth fetches

The price now for 19 years is similar to 19x annual berth fee on the Solent, so not massively bad value even now.

Towards end of lease the value must fall, but 19 years is a long time away and right now people just want to park a boat in Antibes so prices are increasing

 

[jfm]

Question about Magnum for Magnum

Sorry for thread drift, but why does Magnum have 3x VHF aerials (I just looked at the gallery, photo of it tied to a buoy at Salcombe

Most boats have 2 for aesthetics (one is the VHF, other is for the FM radio). But can't figure out why 3

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[jhr]

Re: Question about Magnum for Magnum

One for Mrs Magnum, to go with his?

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<hr width=100% size=1>Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho

 

[Magnum]

Re: Question about Magnum for Magnum

The third is for the Furuno Weatherfax.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.magnumyacht.net>http://www.magnumyacht.net</A> - Princess P42

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I dont disagree that buying a lease on a SoF berth with about 20yrs left is good 'value' especially when you consider that the berth rental fees will undoubtedly increase ahead of inflation. You will probably pay more than £100k to rent a 15m berth over the next 10yrs in SoF so buying a lease at £100k for 20yrs makes a lot of sense - OK, you'd have to apply PV factors to make a real comparison
But its not a totally risk free investment. I cant quite remember but was there not some trouble for bertholders recently at a couple of marinas (Canto, Figuerette??).

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[tcm]

yep - well -they used to do. Since the early-nineties recession, they have risen by about five times. Yeehah! In 1996 a 23 x 6 metre berth in antibes was under 80k, five years later over £200k, and still rising a bit. General opinion is that 20-year leases won't appreciate by the same rate from now. But who knows? Learner's and jfms post relevant too.

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[tcm]

yes, those are the two. Something long the lines of Canto suddenly discovered that the leaseholders didn't actually have the right to park boats there (!) and Figurette was left in a state such that the local authorities took it back. There;s more to it than that, i'm sure.

However, these stories are always told to people who are renting. I take the point about the risk, but prices have more than doubled since 1998(?)Figurette, and many marinas have taken steps to ensure that the same things can't happen to their marina. Or so they say....

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[EME]

Canto was a one off, which I suspect can not be repeated.

Issue was around mismanagement of the port. Commitments were made by the port/bertholders to build civic ameneties like a highclass club, 'wimmin pool and longe-lizard hangouts but this never happened .. all made Cannes major hacked off as they had access to best parking in area . So council foreclosed .... no worse than nonpaying leaseholders in UK.

Not sure about Figuerette , but my understanding is that they couldn't / wouldn't repair breakwater so council said sod you !! Not surprising as place is/was a real dump. Nicest boat there is a S/seeker Comanche....

All has no relevance to Antibes where nice Brits will fork out loads of dosh so that they are close to curry, fish and chips and Sky TV

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue>I am WHAT I say I am</font color=blue>

 

[EME]

Aerials

Don't believe you !!

I had a Ford Capri with 3 aerials, 2 of which were long whippy ones on the roof .. reconnected at rear of roofline .... neither connected to anything electronic but looked good .. -, and made it go 30 mph faster , honest !

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue>I am WHAT I say I am</font color=blue>

 

[longjohnsilver]

Basil

Bet it only went faster when you took one of the aerials off and whipped it!!

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