Source for decent anchor shackles, Solent area?

[pmcdermott]

I'm looking for a decent galvanised bow shackle for 8 mm chain. Force 4 & Marine Superstore seem to only have galvanised shackles from Proboat. I was a bit shocked to see that these are marked as 300 kg, which seems too low for me--I understand that 8 mm chain should have a working load of ~850 kgf. I know that Jimmy Green has a good range of shackles online, but I am looking for somewhere to pop into, as I want to solve the problem today. Can anyone suggest an alternative source in the area? (I have tried the Chandlery Barge, but the smallest they had was 3/8", which was just too large for the chain).

Sometime the lack of choice at these chandlers is incredible...

 

[Sandy]

Did you get it sorted?

 

[laika]

I bought my Kong swivel in YouBoat in Gosport a few years back. Worth giving them a call

 

[Neeves]

Try someone supplying lifting equipment. Chain slings, chain hoists etc. They should have Van Beest's Green Pin shackles. if you want Crosby you maybe need to rely on mail order and Tecni (in the UK) are the people I use and for all I know are local to you - but there must be many others (difficult to define them based in Sydney!)

Ideally you want to have a WLL well in excess of 850kg, and a 3/8th gal Green Pin will be a WLL of 1t (and it will fit your 8mm chain). A better choice is Crosby's gal G209 A, Platinum Pin shackle (not to be confused with their G209!) whose WLL is 2t for a 3/8th" shackle. Both as bow shackles.

I've just noticed that you say the 3/8th" shackle you tried did not fit your chain. That does make it difficult as I don't think Crosby make one smaller than 3/8th". But worth trying - it might fit. You seem to have a small link as the 8mm I test all fit a 3/8th" shackle (except for Maggi)

Good Luck

Jonathan

 

[robertj]

When I set up my new arrangement I asked on here. VYV COX put me onto the anchor/ss wichard shackle/five links of chain/Kong swivel connector/chain arrangement and works great.
All on his site COX engineering.

 

[noelex]

It is now probably too late, but if anyone has a similar problem, CMP produce a range of high test grade A galvanised shackles. The Titan black pin models. They produce a smaller 8mm (5/16) version than some other manufacturers.

CMP are now the manufacturers/distributors of Rocna anchors so these shackles are not uncommon in chandleries that stock Rocna anchors. If they dont have them in stock they should be able to order them for you. Link below:

http://titanmarineproducts.com/high-strength-forged-hot-dipped-galvanized-shackles

I usually drill a small hole for the mousing wire and cut off the head of the shackle pin to streamline it.

I hope this helps someone with a similar problem.

 

[Graham_Wright]

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/GS-Products-Shop?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

Look like specialist and non boaty prices.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/16mm-3-25...le-Free-P-P-/252392774954?hash=item3ac3c81d2a

 

[Neeves]

These CMP Black Pin shackles under their Titan brand in independent tests by Bunzl Safety, part of Bunzl Plc, do not meet CMPs own specifications. A 3/8th" shackle is rated at 2t WLL at a 5:1 safety factor. These shackles are ostensibly a Grade B, not Grade A type. Tests on 3 shackles sampled months apart have achieved over 9t, but never 10t.

They also market a range of Yellow Pin shackles with, for a 3/8th" shackle, a 1t rating and a 6:1 safety factor, they were tested at in excess of 9t WLL. These are Grade A type. They recently had to change these shackles to brown pin, legal reasons, (though in some countries it may still be yellow pin) and coincidentally UTS fell to just above 6t. Still perfectly acceptable and within their own specification.

9t is perfectly satisfactory, for a Grade B type, its the minimum UTS of a Crosby shackle. I'm twitchy at manufacturers who market product that demonstrably do not meet their own, voluntary, specifications.

Crosby have been marketing their Platinum Pin shackles, true Grade B quality, for years without problem - they are a better buy and worth the effort to source. The Black Pin shackles are freely available in Australia, I buy Crosby shackles via the UK. For a $15 shackle I'm not willing to take a risk.

CMP are the manufacturers and distributors of both the Rocna, and more recently, Vulcan anchors. They manufacture both anchors at their own manufacturing plant in Ningbo, China. They took over the licence after the bendy shank fiasco. They also manufacture an excellent range of chain, G30, G40, G43, so both imperial and metric sizes under the Titan brand. The chain appears to be the only short link leisure anchor chain from China that is marked, commonly with CMP as well as the grade.

The Black Pin shackles are the only product that do not, uncharacteristically, appear to meet their own specifications.

It is not clear that they actually make the shackles themselves.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/GS-Products-Shop?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

Look like specialist and non boaty prices.

Cheap, (questionable) gal and inappropriate stainless shackles plus swivels are the major causes of rode failure. Chain failures are like dragons teeth - its the attachments that cause the issue.

Maybe boaty prices could be reviewed

 

[noelex]

Tests on 3 shackles sampled months apart have achieved over 9t, but never 10t.

I would not be too concerned about the difference between "over 9T" and 10T in this context, when it comes to ultimate load tests. These numbers are not safe working load or even minimum break strength but breaking load limit which is a statistical average. It is very dependent on the test conditions such as the rate of pulł. It is hard to get meaningful statistics from only three pulls. The test concerned did not list the standard deviation.

If you look at the link the specifications for the 3/8 or 10mm shackle in the link I provided, it lists the WL as 1800Kg and the break load limit as 9000Kg. So CMP have modified the numbers to reflect the most conservative view, although I understand they were not happy that the test conclusions were accurate and fair.

The best comparison is to look at alternative products. The most popular Crosby 3/8 G-209A which is excellent and I have used for a long time has a working limit of 2T but the safety factor is only 4.5:1 not 5:1 meaning the break load limit (which is not listed) is identical at 9T. The Crosby shackle also has a slightly thicker pin at 11.1mm rather than 10mm of the Titan shackle, meaning the Titan shackle will fit chain where the Crosby shackle might not (this is worth checking for some reason these shackles don't always match the size listed in the specifications).

The OP is using I presume 8mm G4 or possibly G3. Assuming G4 this has a SWL of 1000kg and a UTS of around 4000kg. As a 3/8 shackle will apparently not fit, he is using a 5/16 shackle (although the smaller pin of the Titan is a help and I would be surprised if the larger 3/8 model does not fit). The Titan black pin 5/16 is rated with a WL of 1250Kg and the break load limit as 6250Kg. Note: the safety ratio is higher for the shackle, 5:1 instead of 4:1 for the G4 chain.

So I think this shackle would be fine. I also don't see why the Titan shackle is not recommended while Crosby one is. The Crosby shackle might be stronger, but the difference is not great and the Crosby shackle has a larger (11.1mm verses 10mm) pin.

Most people are using shackles that are "no name" products to connect their anchor. I would not recommend this, but there are few reported problems, so I would not be concerned with minor differences between Titan, Crosby and Green pin especially if you are using a high test shackle with G4 chain.

 

[Neeves]

The tests on CMP shackles were conducted in the same way as Crosby, Campbell and Peerless shackles and were tested in accordance with Australian Regulations - if you and CMP have doubts on Australian shackle testing they and you should take it up with the correct authorities.

The Specifications are minimum loads, not averages - each shackle must meet that standard. In Australia if 2 shackles from a batch do not meet specification then a further 2 shackles are tested. if they fail the whole shipment is returned to the supplier, China. Standard deviation, sample size - what rot - join the real world. These items are safety items and if a specification is set - oddly enough they should exceed the minimum. The shackle maker sets the safety margin and if they cannot reach it the fault is theirs.

The CMP shackle was not recommended because it did not meet their own specification - simple stuff. The concern was straightforward. CMP seemed happy to sell product outside specification - how far outside specification might the product stray.

And until further shackles are tested - the recommendation will remain the same. The drop in the Yellow Pin then Brown Pin test results has raised a flag to watch quality. These concerns are not evident with Crosby shackles.

The fact they have reduced the specification does lead one to assume the test conducted were fair and valid as they would hardly reduce the specification if every other test facility showed the Australian tests were wrong - so though CMP might have been unhappy they appear to think the results correct. Fortunately independent testing and independent reporting does influence suppliers, despite their unhappiness.

The Green Pin shackles are only Grade A shackles and are therefore not as strong as the Grade B shackles, for a 3/8th" shackle the WLL is 1t not 2t for a Grade B.

Shackles can lock up in the shank and shackle makers suggest WLL limit be reduced by 25% if loading is at 45 degrees and reduced by 50% if loaded at 90 degrees. In the unlikely event your 3/8th" shackle locks up at 90 degrees then the WLL of a Grade A shackle drops to 500kg, less than the WLL of either G30 or G40 8mm chain - hence the reason to recommend Grade B shackles. With A G40 chain whose WLL for 8mm is 1t then a Grade B shackle WLL, with 90 degree side loading is also 1t. Testing of shackles at 45 and 90 degrees shows that the reduction in WLL is a correct recommendation.

As I have already mentioned shackle and swivel are the major causes of rode failure (and loss of anchor) and paying (I guess Stg10) for a decent, Grade B, shackle does not seem very expensive insurance.

But shackles should be moused or secured with Loctite - loss of pin being just one cause of failure.

I am not aware that G40 is a very common standard for chain in the UK. My understanding is that most chain sold comes from China and is an excellent G30 quality.

You are correct that though these shackles are all described as 5/16th" or 3/8th" the pin size is nominal and varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. Also though shackles are sometimes sold as 8mm or 10mm - they are actually made, and stamped, to an imperial size. Take chain with you, or if mail order check the dimensions with the supplier, when you buy, ideally take the anchor too as shackle slots vary in size. However I cannot commend down sizing the shackle.

Maggi chain is a small size and 8mm chain might not fit a 3/8th shackle. Rather than downsizing the shackle, enlarge the end link to fit.

Jonathan

 

[vyv_cox]

You are correct that though these shackles are all described as 5/16th" or 3/8th" the pin size is nominal and varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. Also though shackles are sometimes sold as 8mm or 10mm - they are actually made, and stamped, to an imperial size. Take chain with you, or if mail order check the dimensions with the supplier, when you buy, ideally take the anchor too as shackle slots vary in size. However I cannot commend down sizing the shackle.

Some C-links, often manufactured in Imperial sizes, will not fit the metric chain that owners have. It is perfectly acceptable to squeeze the final chain link on its longitudinal axis to increase its internal width. A typical bench vice is more than capable of doing this. I am guessing that 3/8" shackles (nominal 10 mm) will fit 8 mm chain after this small action has been taken, as 10 mm ones certainly will.

 

[Graham_Wright]

Cheap, (questionable) gal and inappropriate stainless shackles plus swivels are the major causes of rode failure. Chain failures are like dragons teeth - its the attachments that cause the issue.

Maybe boaty prices could be reviewed

I have bought tested galvanised shackles from here. Are you doubting their quality?

 

[ripvan1]

You could try these people, very helpful lad on the shop counter - worth a call.

http://www.mluk.co.uk/shop/fixings-fittings

 

[Neeves]

Some C-links, often manufactured in Imperial sizes, will not fit the metric chain that owners have. It is perfectly acceptable to squeeze the final chain link on its longitudinal axis to increase its internal width. A typical bench vice is more than capable of doing this. I am guessing that 3/8" shackles (nominal 10 mm) will fit 8 mm chain after this small action has been taken, as 10 mm ones certainly will.

When I posted the suggestion I did wonder how you enlarged the link of a chain already installed on a yacht. I did not really have a sensible answer - I'm guessing you could unbolt a decent bench metal workers vice and use that. its a bit clumsy - any other suggestions?

 

[Neeves]

I have bought tested galvanised shackles from here. Are you doubting their quality?

I might have missed the humour here - if its not a rated shackle, embossed markings, from a reliable source (Van Beest is the only European one I know, Crosby or Campbell). I would not use it. I tested a West Marine 3/8th" shackle, neatly embossed with 'China' it met specification in terms of strength and deformed like spaghetti (in the same way '316' stainless shackles can deform). There are hundreds of shackle makers in China all marking their shackles 'China" (CMP mar theirs Titan) - you have no idea of quality.

I mentioned side loading - one failure here in Australia looked to have been side loaded, the pin pulled out of the thread, the shackle was unmarked - the expensive anchor, bought only a few weeks. earlier was lost.

Good shackles cost peanuts and will last for years its not worth trying to save a few Stg.

 

[Neeves]

And as a final clarification.

My understanding is the new specification for CMPs Black Pin shackles does not meet the US Grade B specifications and CMP have dropped this in their published data.

The specification for a Grade B 3/8th" shackle is for a WLL of 2t, the new Titan specification falls outside that limit, being 1.8t. It is not clear why Titan simply did not change the safety factor to 4.5:1 as is found with Crosby.

If the 'new' Titan Black Pin shackle with a 1.8t WLL is sideloaded the WLL would then be 900kg, less than a G40 8mm chain.

If you want a Grade B shackle - buy a Crosby shackle.

When I have tested a Black Pin shackle and it meets CMPs specification I will publish the results here on YBW PBO.

Jonathan

 

[Graham_Wright]

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/GS-Products-Shop?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

Look like specialist and non boaty prices.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/16mm-3-25...le-Free-P-P-/252392774954?hash=item3ac3c81d2a

Detail

 

[Neeves]

Graham,

Find me a Grade B shackle - so 3/8th inch, bow, WLL 2t, gal.

Grade A, 3/8th" 1t are 2 a penny.

To find a cornucopia of Grade A shackles simply google: Shackle, China 207.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

A 3/8th" Crosby shackle, 2t, costs stg11

http://www.tecni-lift.co.uk/Crosby-G-209A-Galvanised-Screw-Pin-Bow-Shackle-2000-kgs-WLL-221-017-450

Your anchor costs stg500 and the yacht anything upto, say stg 150,000

why would you want to save money and buy a shackle costing anything less.

I am sure there are other UK suppliers who might be cheaper. But Tecni are happy to send normal airmail making costs acceptable even in Sydney - I'm paying for assurance. You could try to source from Campbell, also American - and a better product - but so far for me inaccessible (suggestions welcomed).

Jonathan