Solent rig?

[Porthandbuoy]

Good idea or bad idea.

I’ve just replaced the ancient Colnebrook reefing gear on my 33’ ketch as I had no confidence in it. Couldn’t find any info on the web, no drawings, no nothing.
I’ve taken the top and bottom bearing and drum units into my workshop, stripped, cleaned and reassembled them. They are still in very good condition and very well engineered. My lack of confidence seems to have been misplaced.
It occurs to me I could fit the old reefing gear behind the new with a 100% jib for windward work where the large overlapping genoa would struggle to work efficiently, particularly when reefed.

 

[Tranona]

That is exactly what I plan for my Golden Hind which currently has a large overlapping genoa to the stemhead but an extra forestay about 2' further forward on a bowsprit. Discussed already with sailmaker about a higher cut smaller sail to the stemhead and move the big genoa on a new furler to the outer stay. No final decision as have yet to sail the boat, but pretty sure will go this way.

 

[fredrussell]

I have a Solent rig with a Hank on working jib. The faff of going up front and hanking it on often deters me from using it and I just furl the 135% genoa instead. So your idea of using your old furler is a good one. I reckon it’ll get used more than mine.

 

[eebygum]

Good idea or bad idea.

I’ve just replaced the ancient Colnebrook reefing gear on my 33’ ketch as I had no confidence in it. Couldn’t find any info on the web, no drawings, no nothing.
I’ve taken the top and bottom bearing and drum units into my workshop, stripped, cleaned and reassembled them. They are still in very good condition and very well engineered. My lack of confidence seems to have been misplaced.
It occurs to me I could fit the old reefing gear behind the new with a 100% jib for windward work where the large overlapping genoa would struggle to work efficiently, particularly when reefed.

When I renewed the standing rigging on my SHE 32c I re-installed a Solent rig on a removable lever (which was already on the boat); like the OP I have a large overlapping genoa which is not most efficient when deep reefed. The benefits I saw being (A) potential emergency forestay, (B) potential to rig up the storm jib/yankee in advance of leaving harbor (C) potential for goose-winging jib with the Genoa...... 5 years later I've done none of things; but it's good to know I have the option so its a Good Idea from me.

 

[BabaYaga]

Good idea or bad idea.

It occurs to me I could fit the old reefing gear behind the new with a 100% jib for windward work where the large overlapping genoa would struggle to work efficiently, particularly when reefed.

I have an inner, removable solent style forestay anchored about 40cm aft of the main forestay (at stem head). The inner stay is normally parked out of the way at the shrouds.
A furling system on the inner stay sounds like something more permanent and the gap between the two stays would require careful calculation in order to not restrict light wind tacking with the genoa.
An inner smaller stay sail set further back (cutter style) might also introduce the need for running back stays, giving further complication.

 

[Supertramp]

Good idea. I have one with hank on sails. Much better to windward and more options for strong winds. Helps having a wide foredeck with bulwarks for raising and lowering. Will need deck reinforcement unless you can use existing fittings.

 

[flaming]

How about going the other way.....?

I.e 100% sail on the regular furler and a "code zero" type on a top down furler tacked ahead of it when needed. Much better sail for light winds reaching than a 130& genoa and don't have to have 2 sails hoisted and rolled when it's a bit sporty...

 

[Porthandbuoy]

How about going the other way.....?

I.e 100% sail on the regular furler and a "code zero" type on a top down furler tacked ahead of it when needed. Much better sail for light winds reaching than a 130& genoa and don't have to have 2 sails hoisted and rolled when it's a bit sporty...

Would be very nice and expensive, but as I now have a 'spare' furler . . . . .

 

[jaapschellekens]

That is exactly what I plan for my Golden Hind which currently has a large overlapping genoa to the stemhead but an extra forestay about 2' further forward on a bowsprit. Discussed already with sailmaker about a higher cut smaller sail to the stemhead and move the big genoa on a new furler to the outer stay. No final decision as have yet to sail the boat, but pretty sure will go this way.

We did just that with our Golden Hind. The previous owner put on a large genoa (140%) which was a beast to tack. We put on a (small) bowsprit, moved the genoa there and have a smalle gib just on the bow which we used in short tacking and heavier winds. It works great for us. We can also have both out depending on the course and wind.

Regards -- Jaap

 

[penfold]

How do you tack the front sail with this rig? Do you furl, tack, unfurl or just drag it around with brute force? Looks like a pain for short tacking either way, but in light wind tacking is a terrible idea anyway.

 

[ashtead]

To be honest you don’t really want to be tacking in the Solent with the outer sail but you are not generally going that far and the inner headsail is a self tacker so why have the hassle going into wind. On the downwind return different story and if light winds you will have rigged the third outer downwind harken type furler should you want more downwind sail.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I’ve had a few sails on boats with a solent jib. Making it self tacking gives it a cherry on top, but in any case it’s so mch easier than a big overlapper. Tacking with the overapping sail becomes a pain, so don’t do it. Only unroll it when there’s a long board ahead. If the wind is really light and you’re desperate, roll and unroll to tack. It beats the hell out of passing it between the stays. If you’re having a solent jib made, having a high clew is good if you can bear the trade off in lost area. The extra visibility is marvellous.

 

[BobnLesley]

We had a Solent rig on our Challenger and loved it, particularly offshore. Both sails on roller furlers and each with its own pole; eventually sold the cruising chute.
Forward sail was a one off >160% Genoa, cut with lots of belly and a lightweight (3.5 Oz, IIRC) cloth. For narrow/Beam/broad reaching to bottom end of F5, On a run to good F5 0r F6 reefed at times poled out either to pole or to boom end (held out on gybe preventer) when fitted with twin sheets offshor.
Inner sail a blade cut 110% job in heavy 5.5, maybe 6oz cloth. Close hauled and off wind in heavier weather, at times poled out either alone or paired with the Genoa. Ocean crossing we rarely hoisted the main sail, lots of sail area choices, the vane steering was happy and other than pole hoists we rarely (never at night) needed to leave the cockpit or worry about a boom gybe.

 

[geem]

Good idea or bad idea.

I’ve just replaced the ancient Colnebrook reefing gear on my 33’ ketch as I had no confidence in it. Couldn’t find any info on the web, no drawings, no nothing.
I’ve taken the top and bottom bearing and drum units into my workshop, stripped, cleaned and reassembled them. They are still in very good condition and very well engineered. My lack of confidence seems to have been misplaced.
It occurs to me I could fit the old reefing gear behind the new with a 100% jib for windward work where the large overlapping genoa would struggle to work efficiently, particularly when reefed.

This is what we have. 135% genoa on the main furler ( 700sqft) and 285sqft working jib on inner furler. The 295sqft is probably about 80% and only twice the size of our storm jib.
The inner furler is set 2ft back from the main forestay and is parallel to the main forestay. This was a deliberate decision. It means the connection point of the inner furler is 2m down from top of the mast. We installed checkstays at the same time. For upwind work, we don't ever reef the genoa. We simply roll it away and roll out the blade jib at circa 20kts over the deck. The performance up wind in 22 kts and above, over the deck, is way better than a reefed genoa. We point higher, pitch less and the boat is way more comfortable. As the wind rises and we reef the main, the check stays can both be left on once we have two reefs in the main.
In light winds, we can still tack to windward under genoa. Sometimes I need to go forward to assist the genoa through the gap between furlers as there isn't enough wind to drag it through. If we are tacking in a crowded anchorage we just use the jib as it tacks fast and is super easy to sheet in on the next tack. We don't want a large genoa in this situation anyway.

 

[PeterV]

And there was me thinking a Solent rig was motoring with the mainsail up.

 

[Supertramp]

My Solent stay is in regular use for windward work as for geem. I don't have a roller furler on it but use the furling main to reduce sail if needed - a slip of trysail size main works wonders for balancing the boat with the Solent jib and mizzen. And it is OK up to 30 knts, beyond which I go into survival mode...

A furler would be nice for it but adds a lot of foredeck clutter. I grew up with hank on jibs and the foredeck experience in strong winds is character forming. I would feel lost without the ability to hoist a smaller jib in strong winds, especially with the wind forward of the beam.

 

[Tranona]

We did just that with our Golden Hind. The previous owner put on a large genoa (140%) which was a beast to tack. We put on a (small) bowsprit, moved the genoa there and have a smalle gib just on the bow which we used in short tacking and heavier winds. It works great for us. We can also have both out depending on the course and wind.

Regards -- Jaap


View attachment 163110

Hello Jaap

That is really useful. Having sailed the boat several times since that post, we have decided to go ahead with the change and I have already bought the new furler for the outer sail. The sail that came with the boat is a beautiful Hood sail made in Vectran which the previous owner bought second hand so was probably not made for the boat. It is a handful and I have found the boat goes just as well in normal use with 3 rolls in it, which makes it roughly the same size as the new sail that has been designed as a working sail with about 105%. The existing sail will be recut a bit to fit the new furler and the UV strip replaced. The change will be made over the winter.

My boat (number 208) had a short bowsprit from new, much the same length as yours. The first 2 photos shows the layout - not my boat but identical in that respect. The next photo shows my boat as it is now, and the last under sail last week with the jib set in the way I have found best. I already have a new mainsail which is larger and with more roach than the one that came with the boat and a Tides Marine sail track which makes raising and particularly lowering so much easier.

 

[srm]

The faff of going up front and hanking it on often deters me from using it

Keep it hanked on, but stow it in a modified sail bag with a flap around the stay. Quick to set and to stow avoiding the windage and weight of a roller furled sail. Worked for the staysail on my last cutter rig. If I had thought it through I would not have put a furling foil for the staysail on my current boat.

 

[jaapschellekens]

Hello Jaap

That is really useful. Having sailed the boat several times since that post, we have decided to go ahead with the change and I have already bought the new furler for the outer sail. The sail that came with the boat is a beautiful Hood sail made in Vectran which the previous owner bought second hand so was probably not made for the boat. It is a handful and I have found the boat goes just as well in normal use with 3 rolls in it, which makes it roughly the same size as the new sail that has been designed as a working sail with about 105%. The existing sail will be recut a bit to fit the new furler and the UV strip replaced. The change will be made over the winter.

My boat (number 208) had a short bowsprit from new, much the same length as yours. The first 2 photos shows the layout - not my boat but identical in that respect. The next photo shows my boat as it is now, and the last under sail last week with the jib set in the way I have found best. I already have a new mainsail which is larger and with more roach than the one that came with the boat and a Tides Marine sail track which makes raising and particularly lowering so much easier.

Very cool to see! Our boat (nr 211) seems very similar. As far as i can see you have the same 'ocean rig' with the rather short mast as we have. A new main is on the list with as much area as we can get.

I've attach a detail of the bow layout and two photos of the foresails in action. We generally only have on out when heading to windward but there is a narrow range (footing) when getting out both gives us half a knot extra.

We got ours three years ago (after having sailed a Dutch barge for 7 years) and love it. It is a bit of a project because it had been standing in storage (heated hall) for +10 years but apart from some small leaks at the cabine entry bulkhead it has been amazingly well preserved.

 

[Tranona]

Lovely photos. Do you have a photo of where the inner forestay attaches to the mast, which I assume is below the top? We are thinking about 30cm down.

Very similar to my boat. I too had leaks around the bulkhead into the cabin and at the bottom of the slots for the washboard. Now cured. I have done a huge amount of work and spent far too much money! Complete rewire, new engine, propeller, modified rudder, bow thruster and refurbished interior. The layout is unusual with a single berth in the forecabin on the starboard side an wardrobe on the port. More work this winter to finish the interior and take the halyards back to the cockpit.

I knew Terry Erskine when he was building the boats and Mark Urry who built the last 5. I also owned one of the first 3 Eventide 26 that were built by Hartwells in 1963 and Terry made al interior cabinet work work while he was an apprentice there. I owned that boat from 1980 to 2019 and did a lot of work including a deeper keel and new rudder, designed with Mark's help. So I have a lot of history with the boats. This is my last big project to keep me busy.

A few photos showing some before and after and the new propeller and rudder.