Solar requirements and cost - 38 ft yacht

[MS_Adventure]

Hi, appreciate some help please. We are in the process of purchasing a 38 ft Moody yacht. It does not have solar installation hence I will be adding this. Plan is to fit an arch and mount about 300w of panels. Please could someone guide me to approx. cost of the installation for the (i) a stainless steel arch fitted by a professional, (ii) approx. cost of solar panels and (iii) any other material costs with the setup.
Thanks, MIchael

 

[sarabande]

Welcome to the forums.

Costs vary from country to country, mainly bcs of taxes. What's your location pls ?

 

[MS_Adventure]

Hi - UK

 

[Graham376]

DIY arch on Moody 376 here in Portugal cost me around €400 for steel and helper's labour. quoted €2,000 for professional one, it's also used as davits. Biggest problem was finding someone to bend 40mm tube. Just uprating our solar from 200w to 320w (2 x 160w) from Photonicuniverse, roughly £1/watt for Chinese made, German a fair bit dearer. https://www.photonicuniverse.com/

 

[MS_Adventure]

Helpful, thanks Graham376. Guess i will need to shop/ask around - am planning to get it fitted in South UK.
Regards, Michael

 

[AndrewB]

Rather less in Greece for my 38ft Moody two years ago. €1,100 for a professionally built arch ('Phil the Steel', excellent quality); €265 each for two 150w solar panels; €45 for a 20 amp charge controller; €11 for a DC ammeter; plus a few metres of fairly thick wire. Gives me a peak of 16 amps (at 12v) in noon sunlight, and is enough to keep everything going including the fridge, without shore power or running the engine to excess.

But if I brought the boat back to the UK, I might take it all down. Not enough sunshine for 300w. Adding more panels isn't really practical without turning the boat into a floating solar farm.

 

[Mistroma]

Rather less in Greece for my 38ft Moody two years ago. €1,100 for a professionally built arch ('Phil the Steel', excellent quality); €265 each for two 150w solar panels; €45 for a 20 amp charge controller; €11 for a DC ammeter; plus a few metres of fairly thick wire. Gives me a peak of 16 amps (at 12v) in noon sunlight, and is enough to keep everything going including the fridge, without shore power or running the engine to excess.

But if I brought the boat back to the UK, I might take it all down. Not enough sunshine for 300w. Adding more panels isn't really practical without turning the boat into a floating solar farm.

Prices seem reasonable and it does depend on location. I imagine that the arch would be more expensive but OP might get other bits for less when buying in UK. Probably not much in it though.

I built a DIY arch in Greece for about 500 euro. Local guys couldn't convince me that they were going to make something meeting my requirements. I could really only get a price and number of panels it would hold. Scheduling was also a big issue and I finally designed my own.

I bought 2 x 100W panels from a German supplier on eBay last year. Price worked out around £88 each including delivery to Greece. I often find that German suppliers will deliver to most of the EU for the same price. I also check them out on a european eBay site because they often give a much better deal in euros (sometimes the same figure as GBP price). My credit card gives an excellent rate with no charges and is much better than allowing PayPal to convert.

I think that many of the MPPT controllers on eBay are actually PWM, best to avoid really cheap MPPT unless you know what you are doing. I already had an epever Tracer 30A controller and am very happy with it. You can only configure a few things from the box but can connect to a computer to tweak a large number of settings. I don't like ones with fixed settings and some LEDs but they will suit many. I make significant changes to suit my Trojan T105s in summer or winter.

20A Epever Tracer approx. £75-80
30A Epever Tracer approx. £90-100

Others will be able to suggest alternative but I only have experience of a couple of controllers. Epever seem well made, report daily/monthly output, very configurable and reasonably priced.

Don't cut it too close on Amp rating. It gets very hot in some places and controllers can generate a fair bit when close to rated capacity. Some headroom also makes it easy to add another panel on deck if needed.

I don't think I'd remove panels on return to the UK as there's plenty of sunshine during an average summer.
300W should generate about 85-90Ah/day during May-July on the South coast of England. No as good as Spain or Greece but still well worth having.

 

[TQA]

You can buy an arch in a box prices start at 1899 $ US see http://www.atlantictowers.com/products_sail_arch.php

My arch is custom made in aluminium and was anodised after finalising the fitting. If cost is not a factor this is the best option.

My panels are rigid Kyocera marine panels and are 10 years old now and seem to be still as good as day one. I have helped diagnose problems with other boats solar set ups and found less expensive panels with the connections to have changed into little piles of green goo. Flexible panels frequently give up the ghost after 2 to 3 years.

If possible arrange for your panels to be tilted to follow the sun. If you are diligent about tilting the panels then you can get about 75% extra output.

The fridge is the main power hog. It is worth investing in a well insulated top opening box and to have an efficient fridge unit. My Adler Barbor Super Cold machine keeps a large box icy cold runs a freezer compartment and makes ice for 40 to 50 ah per day in the tropics.

Avoid inverters for anything other than short use periods. LED lights are a good investment. if you run a laptop for long periods as I do use a gadget that lets you run off 12 volts. the PWR+ units are good.

 

[Graham376]

My panels are rigid Kyocera marine panels and are 10 years old now and seem to be still as good as day one.

I'm removing our Kyoceras, 4 x 43w cost €250 each 10 years ago but, as you say, still in good order, just not big enough. Hurts to bin them though, may see if any buyers.

 

[Pavalijo]

We put an arch on the rear of our Moody S38 2 winters ago at Hamble Point, Southampton. The cost was well over £2,000 but that included removing the whole of the pushpit, cutting off the leading rails and incorporating the arch into it - that will have added significantly to the cost.
We have 3 x Victron 80w panels (about £330) and a Victron MPPT controller with dongle (we have a live readout on iPhone of power generation which is interesting). I don’t remember the exact cost of that but it is readily available courtesy of Google.

After our fit out we sailed from Lymington to Weymouth on a mid- May day with all instruments and fridge running, on autopilot and under sail for the whole trip except departing and arriving. We had an average of about 40% cloud cover. We were amazed to arrive with batteries 100% full (per Smartguage). That was no fluke - we only see the batteries draining on dull days.
We have a couple of roving panels that we deploy at anchor when it is dull, but do not regret only having 240w fixed solar and 345ah batteries.
Note that panels are less efficient in hot temperatures and so performance does not improve proportionate to the stronger sunlight that you get as you approach the equator - there is apparently not a vast difference between Cardiff and the Mediterranean ( in the example I read about when researching).

There is more detail about our fit-out on the blog

Edit - we use the inverter for boiling our low wattage (can’t remember but no more than 1kw) kettle when at anchor - each boiling reduces state of charge by 2%. We have used it to run the portable induction hob but only on the brightest days. The induction hob is great for marinas though - using free electricity and allowing us to cook up top rather than heating and adding moisture down below. It is one of our best gadgets!

 

[TQA]

I'm removing our Kyoceras, 4 x 43w cost €250 each 10 years ago but, as you say, still in good order, just not big enough. Hurts to bin them though, may see if any buyers.

There is usually plenty of ready buyers for used riig Kyoceras.

I have 3 x 135 w and that is more than enough for me in the tropics.

 

[ashtead]

Don't know the OPs precise location but if in a marina you might find a liveabord who is a steel fabricator ? I recall someone mentioning someone at Haslar who he recommended but I'm sure asking around marina offices might elicit such contacts if in south area.

 

[MS_Adventure]

Thanks for the very useful info. Pavalijo can you please let me know if you used a professional to fit the arch in Hamble? If so, would you be able to share the name please?

 

[Pavalijo]

Thanks for the very useful info. Pavalijo can you please let me know if you used a professional to fit the arch in Hamble? If so, would you be able to share the name please?

Certainly did - removing the push pit was a feat of engineering let alone incorporating it into the new arch - it was certainly way beyond my DIY skills!

The chap was Ted French of Abbey Engineering, along with his two colleagues. Highly recommended locally and very nicely old fashioned. Say hello from Paul and Val of Calypso if you speak to him.

 

[MS_Adventure]

Hi Pavalijo,
Do you have a picture of your arch you could share with me please? Helpful to visualise the design.
Thanks

 

[billcole]

If you want 300W of solar then it will probably be cheaper to get a house-roof panel from a supplier like midsummerwholesale.co.uk . These output at about 35-40V, but if you use a decent MPPT controller it will easily cope with that, Victron ones for example can take either 75 or 100 volts depending on the model. Running higher voltage down from the panel to the controller will also mean your wiring doesn't need such a high current carrying capacity.

 

[Kelpie]

I'm looking into this myself and wondering about just how necessary it is to have a solar panel arch.
With semi-flexible panels, you can mount them on your sprayhood, bimini, and much of the deck and coachroof.
If multiple smaller panels are used, the issues of shading should be reduced.
Solar panels are so cheap now that the cost of fabricating an arch would buy an awful lot of panels...

 

[MS_Adventure]

Yes, I am asessing the most cost effective method. Another option could be to mount to the pushpit rails, I see that NOA makes a mounting product - less than £100. Does anyone have any experience in mounting on the rails? Pros and cons?
Thanks

 

[Graham376]

Yes, I am asessing the most cost effective method. Another option could be to mount to the pushpit rails, I see that NOA makes a mounting product - less than £100. Does anyone have any experience in mounting on the rails? Pros and cons?
Thanks

Tried them on guard wires for a few months but the just got in the way. Looking at NOA site, they seem very overpriced for what look easy to fabricate mounts and I wouldn't risk the pole mount in high winds.

 

[Caladh]

Tried them on guard wires for a few months but the just got in the way. Looking at NOA site, they seem very overpriced for what look easy to fabricate mounts and I wouldn't risk the pole mount in high winds.

Have also used NOA pole to support 80w panel. Good in the fact that it could be tilted to ANY direction the sun might be shining. A quality m but expensive product (s).