Soft shackle

[thinwater]

To me, buying a soft shackle is like buying pre prepared baked potatoes with the cheese already sprinkled on!

Sadly, I do remember being slightly gobsmacked when I first saw grated cheese in a pack in a french supermarket.

Pre toasted toast anyone?

Do you bake your own bread and then slice it down for the toaster? Very few do. Every hear the expression "better than sliced bread?"

Agreed, I would much rather load up my own potatoes. But it's all about where the line is drawn, and line is different for each of us. I know quite a few people who basically can't cook at all and go out for every meal (except leftovers and a few frozen dinners or cans). Seems strange to me.

 

[thinwater]

Interestingly (or not) I've hand carved a few toggles with my spoon carving tools - not up to marine strength, but a bit of fun on the camp site. Australian paperbark come in relatively small branches, but is fine grained, knot free and doesn't crack.

When I was testing soft shackles and toggled shackles for article, I actually replaced the aluminium toggle on one of my 5 mm shackles with a 1/4-inch maple dowel. It held 800 pounds. A stick. An aluminium toggle of the correct size will always be stronger than the Amsteel. When makers state a WLL, it is for the finished shackle, with all of its imperfections.

 

[Bristolfashion]

Do you bake your own bread and then slice it down for the toaster? Very few do. Every hear the expression "better than sliced bread?"

Agreed, but it's all about where the line is drawn, and line is different for each of us.

Pre sliced bread - whatever will those crazy boffins come up with next!

I never buy sliced bread - like to keep my bread slicing skills up you know. I'm quite surprised how many people go for the misshappen hack approach.

I do make most of our daily bread when in a house, but onboard it's the shop bought stuff. Kneading dough gets rid of stress & really cleans the fingernails

But a pre made & pre cheesed baked potato - that's madness!

I will agree that sliced bread is easier to eat than an unsliced loaf

 

[Neeves]

How to introduce ANCHORS, in any thread, for example querying a puzzling device

These large soft shackles are used by the military and 4x4s to retrieved heavy (and presumably light vehicles) where stuck in mud. You use a snubber (as in anchoring) as part of the kit and a very large LFR. The shackles can be used on the tow ring or a lifting hook. The kit, large LFR and soft shackles are commonly sold as a set they are cheap as chips.

They are not used, that I am aware of, for personal safety (as such). But the tensions involved will be much higher than any human body could tolerate and I for one would have no doubts of their integrity - but they are designed for bigger tasks.

Simply google soft shackles for vehicle recovery.

Winch Ring

I have wondered if there is a role for the large LFRs in the marine environment...?

There appears to be unnecessary sinophobia in some of the responses. Most anchor chain now comes from China, Rocna and Epsilon anchors are made in China, I believe Clipper yachts were built in China. China now seems close to leading the world with EVs and Lithium batteries

I have wondered where the idea, LFR/Soft shackle for recovery, came from, is it something copied or was the original idea one from China, who I understand now have a very sophisticated army.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

I have 2 of the large LFRs and have been trying to find a use, other than 4x4 recovery, for them

The white device fits the LFR and helps retain the cordage to the LFR. The white device is simply a use for 3D printing. The bridle plate is an early iteration. The two ropes are 12mm, for scale, dynamic climbing rope (from China). The black cordage is simply spliced Liros dyneema, black, not red nor blue and cow hitched to the LFRs and the plate.

As far as I can ascertain LFRs are made for sailing (and some form of hang glider - maybe motorised) and coming sizes upto about 12mm rope. These recovery LFRs are huge, there is a large size gap between 'ours' and 'theirs'




New ideas would be welcome

Jonathan

 

[Bristolfashion]

There appears to be unnecessary sinophobia in some of the responses.

Other way round - a positive attitude to local things.

 

[Neeves]

Do you bake your own bread and then slice it down for the toaster? Very few do. Every hear the expression "better than sliced bread?"

Sorry but....

We bake all our own bread, we also make our own yogurt If you are on a boat for over, say, 1 week - its the only way to go (if you want fresh bread or yogurt). We have even started to make our own cream cheese. Its really not difficult.

Having honed our skills, when away from from home - we do it at home as well. No MSG, no preservatives.

We slice once its cooled - its definitely better than supermarket sliced bread.

I know, I know - we are relics from a century ago - and we make our own marmalade from Seville oranges.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

I couldn't get a GP appointment within a month, so have resorted to some Retail Therapy instead.

This came all the way from China, courtesy of TEMU, and is 57cm long. It seems to be crafted from 12mm 12-strand 'something or other' which has the look and feel of a HMWPE fibre. It is, however, a bright colour....

At just over a fiver, cheap as chips! I can't make them from proper Dyneema for that....!

But... what's it good for? More to the point, what's it not good for?

Guesses?

You could make one yourself but you are very unlikely to have a spare piece of dyneema to anywhere near this size and not so likely to find anything like it in the snap bin of a chandler - its simply too big. Similarly you would not have the hollow tape big enough. Finally you would find it difficult to tighten the knot.

For use on a yacht of 'our' sort of size....?

Drogue?

Some might use it to attach an anchor - personally I think G80 bow shackles are a better option.

Jonathan

 

[zoidberg]

You could make one yourself but you are very unlikely to have a spare piece of dyneema to anywhere near this size and not so likely to find anything like it in the snap bin of a chandler - its simply too big. Similarly you would not have the hollow tape big enough. Finally you would find it difficult to tighten the knot.
......Drogue?

I made up three of these for my JSD and had no trouble sourcing and fitting dyneema antichafe tube.

The knots were tightened between two hefty cockpit winches.

As for skip-surfing and 'snap bins', I picked up the following 15m. of ~16mm dyneema for free in my favourite local childrens' scrap store..... the source of a LOT of new hi-spec rope I've snaffled over the past 2 years.

Quite what I'm likely to do with that remains an unanswered question. It's been added to my considerable pile of 'come in handy one day' in my notorious polytunnel.

 

[noelex]

My wife recently made some soft shackles from 12mm Dyneema. This was the core from a halyard that was replaced by a fellow cruiser due to a damaged cover.

This Dyneema does not have any UV or abrasion coatings, but they are stronger than we need for any applications and they did not cost anything. The line would have just been thrown away if we had not made use of it.

The photo shows the 12mm shackles next to some constructed from 3mm HMWPE line. We have the extremes covered

 

[thinwater]

My wife recently made some soft shackles from 12mm Dyneema. This was the core from a halyard that was replaced by a fellow cruiser due to a damaged cover.

This Dyneema does not have any UV or abrasion coatings, but they are stronger than we need for any applications and they did not cost anything. The line would have just been thrown away if we had not made use of it.

The photo shows the 12mm shackles next to some constructed from 3mm HMWPE line. We have the extremes covered

View attachment 180325

Like knitting, it's something to do to pass the time? Yeah, kind of. I've spliced up stuff I didn't need.

 

[MADRIGAL]

To me, buying a soft shackle is like buying pre prepared baked potatoes with the cheese already sprinkled on!

Sadly, I do remember being slightly gobsmacked when I first saw grated cheese in a pack in a french supermarket.

Pre toasted toast anyone?

Is it called Melba, by any chance?

 

[Neeves]

Is it called Melba, by any chance?

Dame Melba, an Australian, was a singer held in high regard, hence the 'Dame'. I'm sure she would have been described by some, at the time, as a peach.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

Soft shackles are a resurrected product, from the days when sail was king - now looking with increased intensity for applications. What is the point of learning an ancient skill - if you cannot use the product but so popular you can buy them - cheap as chips.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/1005...bac463&afSmartRedirect=n&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

Jonathan

 

[Chiara’s slave]

And if you have need of smaller ones, maybe your boat isn’t 100ft or other excuse for buying 17 ton load gear, Rooster Sailing have some 7mm ones, more in keeping with most people’s actual sailing needs. And at £3.38, no, I cannot be bothered to make my own, even though I could. Plenty of other splicing fun to be had, but that is stupid cheap.

 

[Dogone]

My wife recently made some soft shackles from 12mm Dyneema. This was the core from a halyard that was replaced by a fellow cruiser due to a damaged cover.

This Dyneema does not have any UV or abrasion coatings, but they are stronger than we need for any applications and they did not cost anything. The line would have just been thrown away if we had not made use of it.

The photo shows the 12mm shackles next to some constructed from 3mm HMWPE line. We have the extremes covered

View attachment 180325

Just make sure the bits you reused were never run over a sheave. The cyclic stress there severely weakens the dyneema and shortens its life. Also, the colour. Yuk. It doesn’t go with anything. Dyneema is so cheap I prefer to buy new and change out very early.

 

[zoidberg]

I considered offering an apology for creating another 'bone of contention' ( see #14 ) - but realised this could be a nerdy but welcome respite from anchor argie-bargies.

Jon Neeves and perhaps others have a preference for steel shackles embedded in their DNA. Here's another expert perspective from the land that gave us Dame Edna Everage and Mad Max:

Given that we/here are unlikely to find much use for vehicle recovery kits for use in gullys and mud holes full of 'salties' but may become involved in towing a boat or launch/recoveries on a slipway, there are several useful points made in the above video.

I am sure we'll all agree that the cost comparison made near the end is now wildly inaccurate.

 

[Neeves]

I considered offering an apology for creating another 'bone of contention' ( see #14 ) - but realised this could be a nerdy but welcome respite from anchor argie-bargies.

Jon Neeves and perhaps others have a preference for steel shackles embedded in their DNA. Here's another expert perspective from the land that gave us Dame Edna Everage and Mad Max:

Given that we/here are unlikely to find much use for vehicle recovery kits for use in gullys and mud holes full of 'salties' but may become involved in towing a boat or launch/recoveries on a slipway, there are several useful points made in the above video.

I am sure we'll all agree that the cost comparison made near the end is now wildly inaccurate.

Its been a strangely interesting thread, for a variety of reasons

In fact thought provoking - though I cannot think of a use for the grossly oversized LFRs (apart from vehicle recovery). Nor many uses for dyneema soft shackles (where a polyester soft shackle would not suffice)

Thank you Mr Zoidberg

Jonathan

 

[noelex]

12mm HMWPE is going to be overkill on our sized yachts, but in more common sizes the strength of polyester would not be adequate for many applications. Examples include: the attachment of blocks, boom break, sheets, halyards, snubber to chain attachment etc etc.

 

[thinwater]

One of the fist things I used knotted soft shackles and variants for securing deck gear and sail covers.

• Soft shackles don't scratch.
• Better than bungees in many applications, they don't stretch when the wind blows. You might want one lashing in the system to take up slack.
• They were grossly oversize from a strength perspective so that I could handle them with cold fingers and even gloves.
• They eliminated knots.
• They could be secured very quickly because they were oversized.
• Most were fixed length to repeatable proper positioning. More difficult with knots. Some were adjustable multishackles.
• Unlike knots, they won't freeze with ice. Big plus.
• Won't jam from wet /dry cycles or high load.

The super strength of Dyneema does not factor into many applications. I tied them from polyester covers, mostly from the good parts of halyards that lived inside masts. But for sail ties you can use anything that isn't totally trashed.

I used to tie softshackles of all sorts. Now I would buy them, unless I had an odd requirement (typically a really long one).