social wash

[Guest]

at the risk of starting us all off again...

I was in the med last w/e and self in own boat , friend and another in targa 43. Both sensible people (they were, anyway) but to my horror I watched as they clipped by numerous boats, missing by a long way carwise, not very far at all boatwise. And on a trip along the coast, when I said we'd go "together" I didn't mean that the separation need only be 15yard (literally).

Remebering all this, I said that really, he was going too close to other boats. So how far away should he be, he asked? I said, in open water (ie at sea) minimum 100 metres. Was this OK?

 

[markc]

If he was close enough to pass you a bottle opener, too close.

 

[Guest]

This just goes to prove that even experienced boaters drop clangers. If you are in open water, I think 100yds is a minimum and why not more, say 1/4 mile. In the event of difficulty a boat going 20knts will cover that distance in seconds and it leaves plenty of reaction time to cover any eventuality.

Nick

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Your mate is not an ex-yottie, is he, because I've found yacht skippers pass much closer to other yachts presumably because its easier to judge relative movement at slower speed and because every yard is hard won
I would say 100m is about minimum for a planing power boat particularly if you dont want to totally swamp the other boat. The other consideration is that its easy to get caught in another boat's wake and get flung off one side or another
To travel 100m takes about 9 seconds at 25 knots according my calculator and thats not a lot of time. Fiddle with the plotter, learn round to tell little Johnnie to stop belting his sister and its crunch time before you know it

 

[Guest]

Agreed: it was a busy sunday, and 100m minimum means that a gap of less than 200m between two boats ahead should be avoided. We're talking coastal stuff, not open water.

I did think to say, "as much as possible" or "it depends on the weather conditions because on a flat day the wash carries for miles whereas in a force 7 it's gone in 40metres" or "it depends on the size of the boat you are in, and on whether they're in a canoe or not"

We'd also just come past a whole load (around 50) Grand banks boats obviously on a rally, and much closer to each other than 100m. So saying 400 yds wdn't have been tenable as a "minimum".

I'll remeber next time!
Tough, though, isn't it?

 

[jfm]

Re: 100metres rule

Yes would agree 100m is a good base case, but actually in moderately open water incl the Solent away from harbour entrances a bit more than 100m should be possible. Much depends on the nature of the other boat, if small/becalmed yottie give em more space as your wake will be big at several hundred metres, if a commercial boat or another motor yacht boshing along at fast pace then 100m prop ok.

On the friends-travelling-in-company thing, depends. We have done this at closer than 100m I must admit, but that is in open water when we wanted to be closer for yelling, taking piccies, etc. Really it's between consenting adults so can perform whatever acts the parties agree to IMHO

JFM

 

[duncan]

50 mtr per helmsman pint consumed - eg 2 pints each - 200m

(note this falls down beyond sensible limits)

 

[Bergman]

If a stick and rag man can intrude with a few thoughts:

A 100 mtrs is adaquate clearance, the problem is when viewed from a yachts cockpit it is impossible to tell whether a high speed motor boat is coming directly at you or is going to clear you by the 100 mtrs.

The limited speed and manouverability of a yacht means that you have no choice but to put complete trust in the driver of the power boat.

Thats fine except that there is no way of knowing whether the driver is a Master Mariner or complete loony.

It really is quite frightening sometimes because of the feeling of helplessness. If I dodge I may dodge into you, If I don't dodge you may think I am some arrogant b*****d who clings to right of way no matter what and do a near miss on me to prove some sort of point.

In terms of wash I dont normally have a problem, the sea can make bigger waves than you boys and one has to put up with them - in open water.

I do have a problem in close quarter situations and particularly in shallow channels. I remember one clot who went down the channel into Conwy at 20+ knots where several yachts were creeping in with only inches of water under the keel. A 3 foot bow wave in those circumstances is not welcome.

Have got that off my chest I will say that in nearly 20 years that is the only time I've been really annoyed by a motor boat. Most of the powerboats in my part of the world never seem to leave the marina, perhaps its the price of diesel.

 

[Guest]

remember your blind spot!

ie - if you're too close, then your blind spot becomes a huge blind carbunkle. If the other boat changes course or speed to avoid another craft, you may not have time to see the other!

 

[Guest]

Re: hello ragger

A few of us often do some ragsticking too.

Agreed, powerboatie should make it v clear that he's turning away, going astern where possible, drop off plane when obviously a pile of yachts coming thru and so on.

dare I say that there is one teensy side-benefit of the loonies who drive the boat like a car: they do at least watch out - all the time! there's no glancing off at plotters, short trip down below or (evidently) a turn around to look astern. I suppose that this high level of concentration is a good starting point.

 

[Guest]

Re the problem of knowing whether the motor boat has seen you and will give the required clearance, any suggestions as to how we could make it clear? I would not think it practical to use the vhf every time. The only thing I can think of is to make obvious maneuvers so that you can see I am thinking about clearance.

Reference your man doing 20knts in a shallow channel, that is just a total lack of awareness I guess and most people would be mortified if they realised the problem they were causing. I once when trying to impress a yachtsman I had on board approached an anchorage too fast and sent a 3ft wave up a row of about twenty rafted yachts having a party. Those guys did not spare my feelings and I have never been so embarrassed. It was a lesson learned and something to the best of my knowledge I have never repeated. I can assure you this was thoughtlessness on my part and not in any way malicious.

Nick

 

[Guest]

Yes, the over-emphasiszed initial turn is the way to do it. People say you are sposed to turn intially no less than 60 degrees. This sounds a bit much except in fog where you have to be seen on radar. But showing the other guy your port side is the approved way to do it.

In aeroplanes, when they are coming in to land, occasionally a super-speedy one comes in, or there are loads of planes all soon to bunch up: the command from the tower sometimes comes out to "orbit" ie spin on the spot and I have once or twice done this with big ferry coming up and tight squeeze potential dissappears.

 

[Colinh]

There is nothing much of interest on Scuttlebutt, so this sailor has wandered into your forum, and may have something to add.

My wife and I were sailing off La Rochelle in a 19ft boat, somewhat small for the area, as we never saw another sailing boat smaller than perhaps 28ft. The high speed ferries that go from La Rochelle to Ile d'Oleron and Fort Boyard seemed to divert their course to get as close as possible to us. They always went across our bows.

At first I was less than impressed with French seamanship. But as they all did it, I wondered why. I suspect that by passing within 50 yards of our bows, the idea was to expose us to one big wave, after which all was calm again. Had they passed further away, we would have been left rolling in their wake for ages.

After the third or fourth enounter, turning into the wash for the one violent wave, I began to think it was a local policy. OK for larger sailing boats, but a bit 'exciting' for a small one.

Colin H.

 

[Guest]

ooer. But an interesting tactic. In venice, the high-speed taxis going to/from the airport traveling in opposite directions do a similar thing, missing each other by a few feet then over one big wave and into each others flat wake.