So who takes their ensign down every night...

[Guest]

Re: High tech!

I was told that I couldn't do it with the VHF aerial etc. up there ...... made it higher than most - works a treat !!

If I had found a bamboo stick ...... but alloy section was near to where I was buying other NON-boatie bits for my boat .....


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[BrendanS]

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[AuntyRinum]

You don't say whether you take yours down, but what a shame that you should even have to ask the question. The ensign is the national merchant flag and these traditions are worth maintaining. Do you fly it as a bit of decoration or do you fly it because you are displaying that you are a British vessel? If the first, leave the ensign in the locker and fly a jolly roger perhaps or maybe some colourful streamers. If the latter, fly it correctly.
Nobody actually cares whether you fly an ensign, unless you are a registered vessel and then the MOD takes an interest.
The number of replies to your question which say the whole thing is a load of nonsense indicates how many people are now involved in boating with no feeling for the tradition of it all. Sure, taking down the ensign was started to make it last for twice as long but who cares? It's now an established tradition.
You may find it hard to believe, but there are still plenty of people around who notice whether you take your ensign down or not and, depending on what you do, they make an assessment as to whether you know what you are doing or whether you are a novice.
If you are going to play the flag game, either play it properly or don't bother to fly the flag at all.
As a side issue, I keep seeing motor boats flying a Union Flag from the jackstaff on the bow, which is when it is correctly called a Union Jack. Only RN vessels are allowed to do this on special occasions. Are the owners aware that this is a treasonable offence and treason can still be punishable by hanging?

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[Reap]

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

If you are going to play the flag game, either play it properly or don't bother to fly the flag at all.

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Hmmm Brett, this is exactly what I meant when I said I find infexible people tiresome.
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

Nobody actually cares whether you fly an ensign, unless you are a registered vessel and then the MOD takes an interest.

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It is a legal requirement to fly the national ensign, when in foreign waters, it is not a legal requirement to remove it between the hours of sunset and sunrise.
You can be arrested in certain countries for not flying it.
It is not as you state a 'game'
Personally I fly the ensign but it stays up. It comes down when I am staying in port for sometime.
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

The number of replies to your question which say the whole thing is a load of nonsense indicates how many people are now involved in boating with no feeling for the tradition of it all.

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Show me one post that states it is a load of nonsense!

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

You may find it hard to believe, but there are still plenty of people around who notice whether you take your ensign down or not and, depending on what you do, they make an assessment as to whether you know what you are doing or whether you are a novice.

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Well they may well do, but its probably the same people who judge me by my clothes, I don't wear a blue blazer with brass buttons! And if they judge my ability by if I take the ensign down or not well so what! Lets not forget this tradition includes taking it down at sea, well when its dark and you are 50 mile offshore who is going to notice anyway, Im not just referring to when moored outside the yacht club.


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[AuntyRinum]

I have no doubt that the majority will agree with you.

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[Birdseye]

"You may find it hard to believe, but there are still plenty of people around who notice whether you take your ensign down or not and, depending on what you do, they make an assessment as to whether you know what you are doing "

I'll bet there arent a tenth as many as are laughing their socks off at that piece of pomposity!

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[charles_reed]

What a very excessive waste of time and energy - just roll it up at dusk with a light tape holding it furled and untape at dawn.

I usually leave it flying when on overnight passage.

In a number of foreign countries no ensign and no courtesy flag result in an official visit and a fine.

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[tome]

Striking the colours is a rather nice tradition which I (and many others) continue.

I'm proud to fly the red duster, and associate it with the massive and largely unsung heroics of the merchant fleet during the last war. They suffered huge losses at the receiving end of the Atlantic hunter submarines, must have been terrified and yet continued to cross the seas to bring us our vital supplies.

My ex-father in law was torpedoed 3 times, surviving on one occasion for two weeks in an open lifeboat. He has sadly passed away, but his discharge book remains a treasured possession.

To him, and the many others like him, I strike my ensign (almost) each evening in salute. I have to be honest and admit there are times I'm not on board or forgetful for whatever reason.

That's why I do it, and if it causes you mirth then that's your prerogative.

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[CliveG]

Tome
Well said.


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[MainlySteam]

>>>"You may find it hard to believe, but there are still plenty of people around who notice whether you take your ensign down or not and, depending on what you do, they make an assessment as to whether you know what you are doing or whether you are a novice."<<<

I am very traditional, in fact it would seem much more traditional than you. Registered ship but I do not fly the ensign at all in the flag state's waters. As the tradition of not flying an ensign is very much older than your tradition of flying one (first boats never flew them), and hence much more honourable than yours, I judge myself to be a much better sailor than you.

John

<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by MainlySteam on 31/08/2003 21:51 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[tcm]

Pomposity and the TCM lazy-passage-plan gambit

well, praps the assertion could be qualified: I would be more likely to (initially anyway) ask or listen to the boating advice of someone whom I saw strike/hoist their ensigns than someone who didn't do that at all, ever.

Of course, if they did it at the EXACT corrct times for winter/summer and were never ever too lashed to do it, then I wd be more likely to avoid them having extracted suitable boaty advice cos they might likely be a bit weird....Or of course, very very knowledgeable indeed.

If you see such a person, then the best thing to do is to take the opportunity to use the TCM Lazy Passage Plan Gambit. It runs like this: you hail them and compliment them on their boat. If (as often happens) you both continue a boaty conversation, then you make very sure to mention where you are heading tomorrow, or later the same day, and the TIME when you plan to set off. It doesn't matter what time you say, any old time will do. Then nip off to the pub, or more boatfixing or have tea, whatever.

Now, it is almost certain that the very exacting person has already jif-cleaned his bilges and done his passage planning a month ago, and hence has got nothing much to do. So your vague and amateurish-sounding "plan" gives him an opportunity to be very very boaty, test those plotters and almanacs and so on.

Thus an hour or later he will pleasantly and almost apologetically accost you upon your return and proffer valuable advice about the tide, the wind, useful waypoints, the exact time to set off which is not quite the same as you had planned, with all the workings nicely laid out.

Unfortunately, I think I can see myself falling for this too, one day, and doing someone elses's blimmin planning for them - or it might have already happened...

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[AuntyRinum]

>I am very traditional, in fact it would seem much more traditional than you. Registered ship but I do not fly the ensign at all in the flag state's waters. As the tradition of not flying an ensign is very much older than your tradition of flying one (first boats never flew them), and hence much more honourable than yours, I judge myself to be a much better sailor than you.
John>

Well good for you John, but we don't expect you to do it properly in The Colonies

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[LadyInBed]

Mine stays up - that is, if I remember to put it up in the first place!

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[Sybarite]

Re: So who dips their ensign anymore..??

Used to dip (3 times) to naval vessels and they would nearly always respond. Rarely now.

John

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[MainlySteam]

Sorry Brett me old mate, I was just giving you a far dinkum leg pull there. Better than a good sheep joke eh? I do know that ensigns were traditionally taken down at night so that they could be used to mop up m'lords spilt pink gins after a spiffing days sailing. Didn't mean to make myself look like an idgit by saying otherwise.

We don't find mopping up pink gins an issue out here as we just shovel the empty tinnies (beer cans) over the side and give the boats and crews a good hosedown to clean up. Many assess seamanship by how well this is all done and most vessels are very particular in maintaining the standards required.

I am pleased to see, by following various threads on these forums, that many Englishmen have adopted the same tradition - sometimes, I have to concede, in a manner rather better than us. Probably accounts for so many forumites confessing to getting slack in their flag etiquette, but does explain the many recent threads on what are and where to get the best water cannons.

John

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[Twister_Ken]

Just one tiny thig

If you do leave it up at night when sailing/motoring please make sure it doesn't obstruct you stern light, or turn it into an alternately flashing red/white.

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[bob_tyler]

Re: Burgees .....

"I hoist a burgee - why ? To show me the wind direction as I'm too tight to buy a wind instrument."

For that purpose I prefer a pair of tell tales - light ribbon on the port and starboard shrouds. Save craning the neck upwards.



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[phanakapan]

I generally do take my ensign down appropriately- but I was so proud of my first channel crossing that I 'forgot' to take down the French courtesy flag for a while on arrival back in Blighty. What a crime!

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[Little_Russel]

Fantastic post! Post of the year so far!! Brett you stick to your guns on this one!!!

<hr width=100% size=1>Sail the Se7en seas...

 

[tome]

Hi Birdseye

I see that your reply to my post has disappeared, however it's still in my inbox so I'll reproduce it:

<font color=blue>In reply to:That's why I do it, and if it causes you mirth then that's your prerogative.

From a personal point of view you will note that I have not critisised or said anything negative about this tradition in fact I said

In reply to:I think its fine if people wish to follow traditions............
However from a personal point of view i rarely bother and find inflexible people who tut tut tiresome.
and just that....... what Im saying here is I dont critisise those that do and I dont expect to be tut tutted at by those that dont. But if they insist then that also is there perogative </font color=blue>

I think we're broadly in agreement that it's a matter of personal choice. I won't criticise the majority that don't bother with this, but in return expect them to allow me to continue the tradition in the way I think fit. I've explained why I do it, but ultimately it's a matter of personal preference.

Fair winds.



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