Graham_Wright
Well-known member
I hate spilt rings.
Snaggy split pins - better options?
- Thread starter sawduster
- Start date
Poignard
Well-known member
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Refueler
Well-known member
rogerthebodger
Well-known member
There are several ways of designing clevis pins and the retailing of pins in a clevis.
A drop nose pin with a spring will retain pins in clevises
Pin can be retained using circlips in grooves in the pins.
there are a spring clips that are used on hydraulic cylinder clevis
My bow roller is retained with a clevis pin the has a tab welded to one end with a bolt into the bow fitting to retain the pin. This also prevent the clevis pin from rotating to save ware.
The nappy pins hanging from my mast pivot is also a wat to replace split pins to lock clevis pins
A drop nose pin with a spring will retain pins in clevises
Pin can be retained using circlips in grooves in the pins.
there are a spring clips that are used on hydraulic cylinder clevis
My bow roller is retained with a clevis pin the has a tab welded to one end with a bolt into the bow fitting to retain the pin. This also prevent the clevis pin from rotating to save ware.
The nappy pins hanging from my mast pivot is also a wat to replace split pins to lock clevis pins
Refueler
Well-known member
I find it amazing that Farmers .. Truckers ... etc have survived for many years using everything BUT SPLIT PINS !!
I know the sprung ring pins + R clips are not suitable for us - only needs a rope of sail edge to flip the sprung ring and whoops !! But they survive farm work ... my tractors (2 lawn and one mini general) have R clips and sprung ring pins - and no problem at all ...
I know the sprung ring pins + R clips are not suitable for us - only needs a rope of sail edge to flip the sprung ring and whoops !! But they survive farm work ... my tractors (2 lawn and one mini general) have R clips and sprung ring pins - and no problem at all ...
BobnLesley
Well-known member
I think many of us might carry some spare ones.
My preference was always - especially at deck level - for using split rings as they don't snag/scratch to the same extent as split pins. I've noted comments expressing concern at their speedy removal in extremis, but would argue you can get a ring out quicker than a split pin, most especially when someone's bent the latter right back on itself to reduce the snag-risk: Push a decent screwdriver through the split ring, twist it and the ring will tear open and come free... Job done, with no need for pliers and perhaps even a hammer too.
Sandy
Well-known member
We work in very different environments farmers, truckers, etc have a local agricultural engineers or garage at the end of a phone.
While tractors and trucks are quite big they are usually on terra firma and you don't need to climb 10 metres up a mast to check/fix stuff while on a moving deck 5 or 500 nautical miles from the local spare parts supplier, being constantly sloshed with SALT water and spray.
It would be interesting to hear what the big ships use.
But, as we all say we are our own skippers. Some like locking turns others prefer the proper way.
Refueler
Well-known member
We work in very different environments farmers, truckers, etc have a local agricultural engineers or garage at the end of a phone.
While tractors and trucks are quite big they are usually on terra firma and you don't need to climb 10 metres up a mast to check/fix stuff while on a moving deck 5 or 500 nautical miles from the local spare parts supplier, being constantly sloshed with SALT water and spray.
It would be interesting to hear what the big ships use.
But, as we all say we are our own skippers. Some like locking turns others prefer the proper way.
Maybe you mis-read my post .. it was just a comment about how each 'market' solves the matter.
I think your case study is flawed though ... if you think the yachting environment is tougher than 'farmers / truckers' - then all I can say - is you have no real idea of their environment.
Big ships ? With 52yrs of Big Ship time - 17yrs of which as an Officer on some of the biggest ships ever as well as small coasters etc - Split Pins ? Cannot recall where such is used ..
And this comment : "Some like locking turns others prefer the proper way." ...... well what can you say to that - except each to their OWN idea of what is the 'proper way' .....
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Sandy
Well-known member
We can talk that one over a pint or a dram one day, you might be surprized.
Daydream believer
Well-known member
I do not think that you have had much experience of some farm & construction equipment & the conditions they work inWe work in very different environments farmers, truckers, etc have a local agricultural engineers or garage at the end of a phone.
miles from the local spare parts supplier, being constantly sloshed with SALT water and spray.
Plus, with modern computer controlled systems the local spares shop only supplies half of it. Try dealing with John Deere when the controller goes down
sawduster
Member
The mast is a bog standard AWB mast from Sparcraft so it's either original or someone chose to do it later on. I don't know which one of those is worse though.... I've checked the rig so I've no concerns otherwise and am just looking for tidier options, as you say this has done the job, probably since the boat was new 16 years ago.
Also a good option and I've probably got something in the spares box that would do the job.
Boathook
Well-known member
I can't really comment on other industries but as I said in post 8 I've had R clips and split rings 'fail'.
I think if something is regularly removed, maybe 3 or more times a year the others maybe OK. Having said that my outboard uses R clips for the control cables and the throttle one came of as I was entering Lymington. Unfortunately the design of the engine means another R clip has to be used, but now I check them on a regularly basis unlike once a year !
RunAgroundHard
Well-known member
The normal rule in my industry (Oil and Gas) for lifting and hoisting is that only split pins are used in dynamic lifts with R clicks and nappy pins restricted to static loads e.g. pins that hold temporary frames together. The reality is that R clips and nappy pins are used on dynamic loads as well. The biggest category of incidents is dropped objects and has been for years. However if you look at the stats it is not dynamic lifting with R clips and nappy pins, it is other unsafe practices like poorly secured equipment that slides off decks, fall off container tops. My point is, securing something is less dependent on the securing device, as long as it is applied correctly and this borne out by the statistics.
Refueler
Well-known member
I would never use R clips in any lifting action ... as I would not use them for rigging on a boat. Nappy Pins ?? Yeh well .. Nappy Pins are for Nappys ...
Thinking about loads and locking devices ...
In Gulf of Mexico ... we used Quick Release mooring hooks (portable versions) for the two first lines for Ship to Ship mooring ... and they were last lines to be let go....
They were designed with over centre pawls that while load on - cannot be released ... line needed to be slacked and then a bar was used to release the pawl.
We had an incident during one lightering op where the QR let go while under load ... nearly taking crew with it ...
I was Mooring Officer on the Focsle when it happened .... I filed the report as per Company procedure ... and because the gear was needed for the next lightering op - urgent tests were made to find out if anything had been done wrong ... nobody believed myself and crew who had it happen ..
The test guys from shore could not get the QR gear to release under load ... and made it plain that they considered we mishandled the gear ... so I took the bar ... told the Bosun to operate the winch to put mooring line tension on the QR gear once I had cocked the pawl ... I asked the guys to look at the gear and pawl .. they declared all correct ..... Bosun put tension on ... BHAM ... pawl released ...
I then pointed out the flaw in the design that they had refused to accept ....... operation of the QR gear until modified was restricted.
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RunAgroundHard
Well-known member
A nappy pin that is used to secure structural pins 3mm Stainless Steel Safety Spring | Metal Fokker Springs
Nappy Pin is a universal colloquial term.
Refueler
Well-known member
52yrs at sea with all sorts of lifting gear from kg's to hundreds of tons ......... never heard that term before .. except from wife when changing a nappy ...
Universal term ? maybe in your field ... now if you had said Fokker Safety Spring pin ...
rogerthebodger
Well-known member
Nappy pins that I make are only used to lock the clevis pin in place the lifting load id taken by the clevis pin in shear and the nappy pin R clip is only used to retain the clevis pin and to stop it falling out.
The tow ball on my car is retained by an R clip through a large clevis pin is tacking the towing load
The ball on my hitch is 50mm not 2 "
The tow ball on my car is retained by an R clip through a large clevis pin is tacking the towing load
The ball on my hitch is 50mm not 2 "
Daydream believer
Well-known member
A split pin in that situation would not be suitable considering that it would need to be removed/refited many times during the life of the unit. Furthermore, it is in a place that can be inspected regularly, rather than up a mast where many would never go unless seriously pressed. I doubt that in use your clip would encounter a spinnaker flogging in the wind eitherNappy pins that I make are only used to lock the clevis pin in place the lifting load id taken by the clevis pin in shear and the nappy pin R clip is only used to retain the clevis pin and to stop it falling out.
The tow ball on my car is retained by an R clip through a large clevis pin is tacking the towing load
The ball on my hitch is 50mm not 2 "
Sandy
Well-known member
John Deere have a reputation in the market. You may recall the group of American farmers who went to court to allow them to repair their own kit.
https://www.reuters.com/legal/litig...ht-to-repair-lawsuits-judge-rules-2023-11-27/
rogerthebodger
Well-known member
A split pin in that situation would not be suitable considering that it would need to be removed/refited many times during the life of the unit. Furthermore, it is in a place that can be inspected regularly, rather than up a mast where many would never go unless seriously pressed. I doubt that in use your clip would encounter a spinnaker flogging in the wind either
Yes, my example is a different application to rigging at the top of a mast, but my point is that the split pin or any other clevis pin retainer is only a retainer and NOT taking the load that is taken by the clevis pin.
The position of the clevis pin and locking device and the possible encounter with a flogging spinnaker need to be considered as on my rig some of the clevis pin locations are far enough from the sails to not be affected.
I have used noppy pins on the lower part of my rigging during maintenance but replaced with a different design of clevis pin that does not require a split pin for locking and also has no sharp edges to damage hands or sails.