Small Yacht Chartering Business idea – your thoughts?

[Captain_Donut]

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I'm not the sort of market you need to look at though since having tried, liked it and bought my own you'd be unlikely to get any repeat business from me.


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Agreed that not the sort of customer to base a business around, but perhaps a customer that could be a useful addition.

 

[Captain_Donut]

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Coding is not as expensive as many think or get charged, I've coded a boat and the two items that will cost you any appreciable sum on any yacht to be coded even for cat 4 (20 miles from safe haven in good weather and daylight) are liferaft and flame proof gas detection device. Everything else is just some labour, and could be sorted easily in a week.


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Interesting, will PM you.

 

[Captain_Donut]

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I know a lot of people who go straight to 36ft + yachts, and firmly beleive that everybody benefits from a few years on smaller boats.

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I dunno about a few years, but I could see the attraction for someone renting a boat for a few months to either practice what they learnt at RYA school or to learn themselves with a mate in their own time. I suspect that part of the reason folk go straight to a large yacht is (apart from the obvious benefits of a 30/ 35 foot yacht over a 20/22 one!) is that as they do not know one end of a boat from another they do not know enough to risk buying small to start with / do not want the aggarvation of doing so or to risk being stuck with something they can't later sell. It is just soooooo easy to sign the dotted line with the nice salesman /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif Whether this is a market worth going for is something to think over - especially as it may be the case that the wife (and maybe me?) would think about going down the RYA instructor route. But this would not be anything immediate.

(Just as a seperate question, anyone know whether you have to be RYA / similar qualified as an instructor to teach people how to sail? (I am thinking practical day skipper level / basic learning level - rather than Jester Challenge competitor!) I appreciate that their would be an advantage in being one particulalry in the marketing front, but is it an actual "requirement"??)

 

[fireball]

Not a legal requirement - but if you are doing this on a commercial footing then you would be well advised to teach as a recognised RYA sailing school - more red tape ... no chance of hooking up with a local school ??

 

[Captain_Donut]

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more red tape

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I would not want to go down the route of being an RYA school, I have not looked at the requirements but suspect that to do this it would have to become more of a full time commitment than I can afford to give.

Just looking to being able to "add value" to the hire boats, mainly for those who have liitle or no idea about sailing / boating - one up from learning how to sail a dinghy - with after a day or so them being capable of being let loose on their own - albeit with firm instructions not to try and cross the Atlantic /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif The fact that I could not issue certificates that were acceptable to anyone else is not really an issue........although "Certified by Captain_Donut" has a certain ring to it /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif The RYA need not worry about the competition at this stage /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

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no chance of hooking up with a local school ??

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It's a possibility, but I suspect that their are plenty of "proper" /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif boats they can and do already use and I will admit that for many things a 30/35 foot boat is better!! But of course cost is something I could probably compete on.

 

[andy_wilson]

You are unlikely to find an agent who will handle them for you. The time factor for handling bookings and deposits is identical, and in handing over is about the same whether it is a 20 footer for £400 / week or a 40 footer for £2000 / week. Either way they make 40% for a 10 / 30 / 60 minute conversation with the skipper. The time factor above is more a function of attitude than yacht size. Some will just toss you the keys with a berth number on the fob!

There will be little call anyway these days for a week long charter on a yacht where you bang your head, so odd days out, maybe weekend hire for an odd o/night will be the norm. Therefore you (someone) would have to be in attendance all weekend and most of the week during peak times for ad. hoc. hiring.

They will all need basic coastal charter gear which will probably double the cost in money / time. Gear will consist of a full suite of lifejackets + spares, flares, MOB equipt. To get coded they will need surveying to check hull / rig / gear. Petrol for outboards will be a sticking point. Self contained tanks are OK, but remote tanks and spares will need to be deck mounted, secure, and easily jettisoned.

I think the best way you could research this is to have a chat with the people at Mylor - for the price of a drink or two perhaps.

I think the only way it is likely to stack up is if you live on-site, in an area of extensive sheltered water. The main problem with being based in a hot-spot is the first £Million you will need for a prime site water frontage. A second strategy could be to put them all on trailers parked securely nearby (to keep the masts up) and invest the money saved in a Land Rover and time required to move them to and fro.

 

[ValleyForge]

You could think of tying these to holiday cottage / hotel accomodation ? - we have booked a cabin in Norway this summer, that comes with a small boat (for free). Nice idea, hope you can find a way to make it work.

 

[dedwards]

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I could see the attraction for someone renting a boat for a few months to either practice what they learnt at RYA school or to learn themselves with a mate in their own time.

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I think I fit into this category - i'm dayskippered up and really want to get out there and get some practice skippering. Problem is, the cheapest charter available is a newish 30 footer which is well out of my price range so i'm limited to crewing for other people until I can afford my own boat. It seems all charters are geared up towards crews of 4+ and there is an open market for chartering cheaper boats to couples, rather like sailingholidays.com do with their jags.

 

[dedwards]

Another way to do it could be to be an agent. If you are able to build up a database of owners who are willing to code and charter out their boats (the owners could choose when they are available) then you could just take a cut from making the match - rather like a letting agent.

 

[AlienP2]

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Look at Sailing Holidays, they do it with old cheap boats.

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I tried a Google, but got a lot of hits!! I suspect you did not mean SailingHolidays.com? Have you got an area / any more info that would help me narrow the search?

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Sailingholidays.com used to run a fleet of old Jaguars (27ft think) on their Ionian fleet.

 

[snowleopard]

I did it part time, living 200 miles away. The agent took care of day-to-day stuff including minor repairs. I went down about once a month for a weekend of frantic maintenance. The agent took 30% (I believe the YCA standard is now even higher).

My idea was to try out the idea of making my living from working with boats. I soon realised that working on boats while others did the sailing wasn't much fun.

The utilization was low, 50% of the 16 week summer season for one, 25% for the second and <10% for the third. The marketing consisted of an ad in the back of YM and others with a list of boats including the line '3 Sonatas'. Not exactly power selling.

One thing I forgot to mention - Only well-known boats will sell, forget the 'one-off 27 footer', the name of the game is Moody/Bavaria/Dufour etc. If the punters haven't heard of it they'll go for something they feel safer with.

A great deal of money went on repairing and replacing gear that the punters lost or damaged. Berthing, lift out and yard storage was the biggest single cost, followed closely by agents fees. If you do your own marketing, cleaning, preparation and handovers you'll save the fee but still spend a lot more than you expect on advertising.

 

[Captain_Donut]

Interesting post, thanks. Good to also hear some constructive criticism.

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I think the only way it is likely to stack up is if you live on-site, in an area of extensive sheltered water. The main problem with being based in a hot-spot is the first £Million you will need for a prime site water frontage.

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This is probably a good reason why something like this is not widespread (as well as the English weather!), where the place is a "hotspot" enough to attract sufficient punters for this sort of business seafront real estate is more profitably used for something else and NEEDS to be more profitably utilised!.

Prime beach front property was not part of my initial budget, if I had that budget I probably wouldn't bother /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif, I was figuring on the Internet replacing the shop window and using Agents (B&B's, Hotels, local Tourist Info centers as the on the ground "front offices", albeit at a cost, in conjunction with direct marketing to local businesses / their employees and the local media. Wasn't sure how I would be "going national" /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif MAYBE an advert in PBO if I was feeling rich /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif.............and a lot of self advertisment here!

 

[Captain_Donut]

Useful info cheers.

I guess that in your area their was only a certain market for a Sonata (or similar sized vessel), but that with only 1 vessel (even with it taking a far higher booking rate) their would just have been no point in the venture. Something for me to bear in mind for me especially as I was thinking towards the 5/6 vessels to make it economic for me (cos the hire rate would be so low), especially as at the end of the day would perhaps be a lot less saleable than a Sonata when going for an "exit strategy".

All good stuff for the little grey cells to mull over /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif, although I am starting to get the feeling that whilst this may be viable as an add on to another Tourism related business(es) (as also suggested in this thread), rather than being a "work around" my existing day job which is not Tourist related. Or perhaps the business "model" needs a re think.

As you said originally, you made the decision to sell the 3 Sonatas and concentrate on the day job when things had had a good run and it was time to call it quits. Whilst I would like to be more "hands on" than you were as a partial lifestyle change has it's attractions for me, I also don't intend to start a boating charity!............although a lottery grant would be nice /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[Captain_Donut]

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Sailingholidays.com used to run a fleet of old Jaguars (27ft think) on their Ionian fleet.

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I missed the Jags, first time around........I guess that's why they call me a Donut!

Same broad idea as me, I am sure plenty of punters who cannot or do not want to spend for more boat than they need. Of course a Jag is a bigger vessel than I am thinking of, but of course they have a bigger potential punter base and a longer season. Maybe I should relocate somewhere warmer /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[rhinorhino]

Sorry to pour cold water on your idea - but I don't think it will work, why?
Well first - mooring location, customers all tend to arrive friday/night satuarday morning, if on swing moorings, how do they get out to boat? You take them, delay and you will need to code a rib and have a licenced driver or do a deal with local water-taxi and be at his mercy. To charter boats need to be in a marina = high cost.
Second, all fixed costs are much the same wether you are chartering a small boat or a large one, advertising, accountancy, insurance are fixed costs. You will need the same staff as well office / cleaning staff all cost the same whatever you are chartering.
Charter rates would need to be low - much lower than other charter and very limited cruising range would kill sales, no one will want to sail up and down the same river for a week.
Also eight weeks usage is very optimistic across the fleet as a whole. You will in reality get day / weekend bookings so eight weeks equates to every other weekend the whole year round.
Unit costs are also very similar whatever the boat size, cleaning and service cost much the same 20' or 36', flares life-jackets all need replacing / servicing every year costs are the same, certification again pretty much the same whatever the boat size.
sorry

 

[Captain_Donut]

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Sorry to pour cold water on your idea - but I don't think it will work,

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Thanks for the response, very valid points - nothing wrong with "cold water" - at this stage it is cheap!