Small Yacht Advice

[Fire99]

Hi everyone.

This may be one of my first postings on the Sailing 'side of the force' so please be gentle.

I've owned motorboats for 10 years or so now but am looking at moving to sails for the foreseeable future.
I've done some sailing and completed a few RYA courses etc so feel fairly confident in owning my own yacht.

Getting to the point, i'm looking at buying a very small but fairly tough Yacht to see me through winter at very modest cost.

The boats i've taken an interest in are a Snapdragon 600 (bilge keeler) Snapdragon 23 (Triple Keel) Sea Wych (Bilge Keel and with a Diesel Inboard Saildrive) and the rather well known Corribee (Fin Keeler)

Obviously i'm guessing that the Corribee is the best actual sailer of the bunch but being on the shallow East Coast am a bit concerned that the Fin Keel will restrict my 'vogages' somewhat into tighter areas of the Colne / Blackwater etc.

I've heard the Snapdragon 600 is a bit leeward sailing into the wind and that the Sea Wych doesn't go too well into the wind either and has a bit of a 'weather helm' issue.

Anyway, rather than going round in circles (excuse the pun. ) I thought i'd see if you knowledgeable folk could throw any ideas.

I'd like some interior space where me and a mate can sleep, make a cup of tea etc but i'm not expecting standing headroom etc.

On the budget side, i'm really having to keep it under £2k for this one.

Your thoughts are much appreciated,

rgds,

Nick

 

[Refueler]

Hi everyone.

This may be one of my first postings on the Sailing 'side of the force' so please be gentle.

I've owned motorboats for 10 years or so now but am looking at moving to sails for the foreseeable future.
I've done some sailing and completed a few RYA courses etc so feel fairly confident in owning my own yacht.

Getting to the point, i'm looking at buying a very small but fairly tough Yacht to see me through winter at very modest cost.

The boats i've taken an interest in are a Snapdragon 600 (bilge keeler) Snapdragon 23 (Triple Keel) Sea Wych (Bilge Keel and with a Diesel Inboard Saildrive) and the rather well known Corribee (Fin Keeler)

Obviously i'm guessing that the Corribee is the best actual sailer of the bunch but being on the shallow East Coast am a bit concerned that the Fin Keel will restrict my 'vogages' somewhat into tighter areas of the Colne / Blackwater etc.

I've heard the Snapdragon 600 is a bit leeward sailing into the wind and that the Sea Wych doesn't go too well into the wind either and has a bit of a 'weather helm' issue.

Anyway, rather than going round in circles (excuse the pun. ) I thought i'd see if you knowledgeable folk could throw any ideas.

I'd like some interior space where me and a mate can sleep, make a cup of tea etc but i'm not expecting standing headroom etc.

On the budget side, i'm really having to keep it under £2k for this one.

Your thoughts are much appreciated,

rgds,

Nick

The Snaps are tough boats and yes do have a tendency to have leeway. The Seawych - I know there are those who love them, but IMHO are not as good as the Snaps.
The Corri has its following and many are junk rigged.

I had an Alacrity - similar size to Seawych at 19ft and definitely outsailed a SW - more like a dinghy with a lid on. And much better looking than a SW ! Swedish friend, Jenku, who posts on here has an Alacrity and he has 2 - 3 week cruises each year with his WITH crew ! I would quite happily do a weekend two-up with mine. Bilge Keel as well ..... towed behind a reasonable car.

You should be able to pick one up for about 1K .... or a bit more in VGC

My next boat because wifey wanted a bit more room inside ... ( we didn;t have any troublke doing 'married things' in the Alacrity ! ) ... I bought a Snapdragon 23 Triple Keeler. Now this was a good step up from the Alacrity, but still not full headroom. But it was good for a weeks cruising of Solent ... 3 up. The Snap was nowhere near as agile under sail as the Alacrity, but wasn't so slow. The Triple Keeler I had was a later development of the older centre-boarder version that my Father and I used to race in Solent - now if you can find one of the original CB versions (sail number below 10 ... ours was SD09 ... ) that will sail well.

As they are getting long in tooth now - odd ones come up pretty cheap and can be found for a lot less than 2K .... just over for VGC. They are just within the trailable size but need a reasonable tow vehicle as a pick-up or 4x4.

Of course there are many other small cruiser boats of 1 - 2K pricing and I would say a Centreboard or Bilge / Triple Keel is sensible choice. None of them are going to be sparkling performers so keel choice is less critical in performance respect.

It's worth scouting around as well - as odd larger boats come up in yards where people have left them, run out of money, abandoned etc. or just plain hard up !

 

[Tranona]

Welcome. I will have a go.

None of these except perhaps Corribee are good at sailing and you and your mate would become very maty in one of those.

Snapdragons are frumpy - solid and unexciting, but are getting very old.

Sea Wych would be my choice mainly because I built one and learned the tricks with it. More modern, simply built, sail reasonably. Weather helm usually cured by reducing main area a bit and putting 30 metres of chain in front bunk locker. Most were home finished but the kits were good quality. Bit wary of a saildrive as the installation is probably home grown and will take up a lot of useful storage space. A 6hp outboard is much better. I used a Seagull on mine and it was fine. £2k will get you a good one - the later red hulls after about sail number 400 (mine was 404 and one of the first Mk 2s) had a lot of minor improvements. No obvious weaknesses to look out for except the keels. Ballast is steel punchings set in resin and if water gets in for example through grp rubbing through will corrode and split open. This happened to mine when I caught up with it 25 years after I sold it - but handy owner repaired it successfully.

Good luck.

 

[TiggerToo]

How about this one:
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211206

for £200 must be bargain! And she looks sweet.

 

[David_Jersey]

Corribees were also built with Bilge Keels - I used to have a fin and the legs although quite manageable were a PITA. I recall reading that sailing performance was not greatly affected by B/K - but have never sailed on one to compare. In any event I suspect that given the age of the boats that the greatest impact on performance won't be keel configuration, but sails.

Whilst budget is always a consideration, if I was buying another Corribee (I get tempted now and again , it makes no sense - but still ) I would go for B/k (drying harbours here), roller reefing (foredeck work is quite doable, but singlehanded pullng on string is always easier and with a sprayhood. The roller reefing and sprayhood are big cost (relative to boat value) to add on later - IMO better for a PO to add them . But a £2k budget probably won't get those. Probably will get an interior that needs a refurb (more about time than money) and old sails and running & standing rigging of an indetermnate age (20+ years? ) with an elderly outboard on the back.......plus a few other things that need doing thrown in for fun

Sitting headroom near the main hatch, but no real lounging area down below. 2 for sleeping ok, but 2 spending the day onboard looking out the window at the rain would probably lead to murder More than enough room to put the kettle on

 

[Fire99]

Thanks alot guys for the feedback.

The little seawych is pretty cheap (been reduced a fair bit) but i'm a touch concerned about the saildrive for all the reasons you say plus i can imagine in a boat that size the install will make the stern rather heavy.

I've heard great things about the Corribee and will be looking at a fin-keeler tomorrow which is up for not alot of cash. However I'm being realistic and even though I can't be too fussy in my price range. I don't want to buy something that's too inappropriate for my needs.

Thanks for the link to the '£200 quid' bilge keeler. Sadly they want £4k for her. Which is serious Corribee money. and about double my budget.

I could probably pick the little 'Snappy' 600 bilge keeler with a 4-stroke o/b for around £1k with apparently new main & head sales ready to fit.

The triple-keel '23 looks a bit more 'kitted out' but i'm not sure what money that will fetch yet. (I'm sticking firmly to my £2k budget)

Perhaps a trawl round some of the yards may be necessary to see what's sitting around.

Thanks again for your input so far.

 

[ianat182]

You could also consider a Seal 22,centreboard,18" draft with board up,outboard in a well,9.9hp ample power. Very good sailer and close winded if racing; between £2and £3k ,with trailer. Roomy enough down below.Usually a furling genoa.Good Seal and Parker Association for tips if needed. Parker yachts now no more unfortunately but their boats are good value too,based upon the Seals I believe."GeoffatStanpit" of these forums is expert on these .








ianat182

 

[ninky]

couldn't you go for a bilge keel corribee? see thesimplesailor.com for a guy who sails engineless in one.

we have a swing keel jag 22. she also has bilge feet / plates and is more than happy on an inexpensive drying swing mooring. plus with only 50cm draft with the keel up you can get up the creeks etc. as someone said somewhere about the alacrity (which i think is related to the jag), more like a dingy with accommodation space. you can get them fairly cheaply - ours was sub 2k.

 

[Fire99]

Certainly a Jag or Seal 22 may will fit the bill if I can find one for reasonable money.

There's one Seal 22 at Tollesbury for £2250 ish. Not sure of its condition etc though.

A bilge Corribee could well be an option if i could find one for reasonable money.

There is one 'down south' for 950 quid minus an engine but requiring some work (which I have no idea what that means)

Would the Jag/Seal be ok for coastal cruising with fairly strong weather?

 

[SAWDOC]

A guy I sail with has a lift keel Jag 21 which sails fine - he is often singlehanded and copes well in rough weather.

 

[Fire99]

A guy I sail with has a lift keel Jag 21 which sails fine - he is often singlehanded and copes well in rough weather.

Excellent... Thanks for that.

 

[Refueler]

Snap 23 shouldn't be too much over 2K even for a good one (asking price that is) .... I sold mine for 2K and she was superb - honest. I bought her in at 1150 ....

 

[bobgoode]

Nothing wrong ... and plenty right... with all the ones mentioned but don't rule out a cheap Hurley 22 bilge or even the Hurley 20. Fantastic sea boats with good room and built to last.

 

[Topcat47]

You might well struggle to find a Corribee under £2k.

If you can use a fin keeler, look out for a Gallion. Super sea boat, great accommodation for a 22footer.

 

[ninky]

there's a jag 22 for sale with the owners group

http://www.jaguaryachts.co.uk/forsale.html

it's just under 3k but seems to come with lots of extras and looks good. plus they might take a cheeky offer!

 

[MrCramp]

Several boats on eBay. This one in Essex, a Hunter 18
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hunter-18-Sai...s_ET?hash=item41489a6019&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Corribe essex
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Corribee-sail...s_ET?hash=item4148ad7f7e&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Vivacity 20, Poole
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vivacity-20-b...s_ET?hash=item3355417bca&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Matilda 29, Kings Lynn
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SAILING-BOAT-...s_ET?hash=item518c531eaa&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Look through the boats section (NOT sailing section) on eBay and then select sailing boats.Think this link will give it you.
http://motors.shop.ebay.co.uk/Saili..._pcats=9800&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_sop=2&_sc=1

PS You will owe me a pint if you buy any of these!!

 

[bendyone]

Here's the one for you

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/BPL032

 

[kingfisher]

Halcyon 23. Enough said.

 

[photodog]

Dude! Look at you! LIVING THE DREAM!!!! Your own yacht and a CAPRI!


I am impressed!

 

[gregandginas]

You should add a Pandora to the list of outstanding smaller yachts: they really are hard to beat. Certainly no better than a Corribee... but worthy of comparison. Find out more via http://pandorasailing.com/

We're on a 1970 Mk.1 with a centreplate / drop keel. Bilge keel and triple keel options are widely available... and the fin keelers are routinely raced in Abersoch. They all handle more like a dingy than a yacht: wonderfully responsive - and not expensive.

Excellent offering here at £1,450: http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/F208772

To my mind the Mk1 was the best of the Pandoras: beautiful... and with the outboard transom-mounted you get a fantastic rear locker that is lost on the later versions. Later versions are also great though.

The Pandora evolved from a dingy that was designed for handling: my impression remains that most more modern craft are basically designed as floating caravans, with the accomodation dictating the form.

Fundamentally... I'm yet to be convinced that anyone's ever designed a decent smaller yacht you can stand up in, Maybe some are OK... but my impression remains that accomodation considerations in all such craft have dictated quite horrible compromises at the expense of performance.