Small cruiser/racer selection advice

[rog123]

Hi everyone,

Hopefully I'm posting this in the right place but I'm looking to get advice on buying a boat.
Basically looking for something I can sail solo and might be able to spend a couple of nights in with another person so no need for luxury seeing as my budgets 3-4k.
The last thing I want is something very slow and boring to sail but at the same time something that can weather stormy conditions so trying to understand this balance.
I was thinking in the region of 23-28 feet. I was wondering at say 23 feet with an oncoming chop do most boats barely chug by and so maybe the upper end of the spectrum would be more apt in these conditions or is it as much model dependent? Also when sailing windward will these smaller boats suffer a lot compared to bigger ones.

I'm intrigued by the quarter tonners. They look fast but are maybe too hard to manage solo and tend to broach easily.
Ecume de mers look nice and I hear people sail these single handed so if anyone knows how these go that would be great?
Some others like Robber 3es look real fun but probably far too racy, maybe the Eyghteen 24 or the Offshore quarter tonner?

In terms of smaller boats which I'm sure would be way less hassle but also less performance wise in chop and windward conditions.
I'm interested in Hunter Sonatas but they may be a bit too light?
Also the Pandora 700 is a definite forerunner so if anyone has experience with them I'd appreciate advice on the following:
There seems to be another improvised version coming in at 23 rather than 22 feet and possibly with a taller mast - would they outsail the original and I'd love to know about the above points in relation to performance.

Also any advice anyone has on points to look out, for instance I'm sure sail condition is as important as anything else in terms of speed.
Anyway thanks for your time everyone.

 

[RupertW]

They are very unfashionable hence very cheap now but I’ve owned 2 GK24s and crossed Biscay in one - and I’ve never had boats that felt so right sailing. Fast in its time but The bulletproof build makes it heavy for racing now.

Often sailed singledhanded and easy spinnaker work with 2 aboard and although sitting headroom only we would live aboard for weeks.

 

[Motor_Sailor]

International H Boat.

 

[PeteCooper]

I had an Ecume De Mer for many years. I liked it very much. By modern quarter tonner standards relatively slow. She would point well and always felt safe - and I have sailed mine in some big weather. The accommodation is cleverly thought out, if you are very close to your crew she would sleep 6! They do have 2 very good quarter berths which are brilliant at sea. A lot have had the original engine replaced, typically with a 1GM10 which is what I had and suited her perfectly. Some have been replaces with an outboard on a bracket at the stern and I would try to avoid that. They are very stiff as well - it is really hard to get the deck any where near the water, and if you did you would be far better off reefed anyway.
I crossed to Ireland several times without any concern at all.
A well documented issue with them is that the cored decks sometimes get water in and go soft and the fix is just as well documented. It's a cheap(ish) but time consuming fix if you do it yourself but I think would be expensive to have done professionally. The headlining is a grp moulding so never sags.
I loved mine but I wanted something smaller and sportier.

 

[rog123]

Thanks,
Yeah doesn't look like theres much space down below but since I'm 6'5'' theres no way I'd have standing room in anything anyway.
What kind of average cruising speed would you get out of interest?

 

[RupertW]

We would reckon on 4 but it would double that on a spinnaker run in a following sea. 5 to 6 was frequent if we were sailing well.

At the time it felt like a lot of room down below as the boat was wider than a lot of boats for its length and having both hanging lockers a forecabin double, separate Wc and two great pilot berths worked. But at your height it’s not the boat for you.

 

[rog123]

Yeah they're lovely looking boats alright.
By the looks of them most have old sails so I'd probably have to look into that side of things.
I've read that they're quite good sailing to windward - any truth in that?
What kind of average cruising speed what you say you got? Thanks

 

[rog123]

Wow very impressive sounds like a fun sail!
Any idea what height it was down below?

 

[Dipper]

I used to crew on a Robber 3E. She sailed very well and handled some rough seas on the way back from Alderney. However, I don't think I would want to sail one single handed.

I also crewed on a fin keel Achilles 24 prior to that (same owner) and that sailed very well. He managed a rough crossing of Lyme Bay with his wife and a young baby without any drama.

 

[rog123]

Thanks yeah I'd love to get the Robber, looks like it would fly but probably too much to handle singlehanded good to get the information.

 

[Ceirwan]

If you don't mind putting in a bit of maintenance work then there's quite a lot that your budget will get you these days if you make cheeky offers and look around. On my shortlist I'd have:

- Sonata: Quick fun boat, a little tippy but not unduly so, big fun fractional rig as well
- GK24: As above, if you can get one within budget, very seaworthy and pretty quick. Also roomy for it size.
- Eygthene 24: Relatively unknown quarter tonner, Ron Holland design, bit of a saucer shape, quick especially upwind and you can get them for a song. Very stiff boat with lots of ballast. (I'm biased as I used to own one)
- Sadler 25: Very cheap now, a few have crossed the pond.

Of course there are many more suitable designs, the best thing is just to get on Apollo Duck / Boats & Outboards and have a look at what's close to your budget.

 

[Seajet]

rog123,

you could do a lot worse than a look at the website in my signature below.

I can't update it at present but there are A22's more recently advertised on Appolloduck etc too, if interested feel free to PM me.

 

[Quandary]

You will not find a Ruffian 23 for your budget but it is a 1/4 tonner with real performance combined with rugged sea worthiness, I raced on one in the Irish Sea, North channel area with confidence and success, better performer than the Achilles 24 ( owned one and raced it in the same class as the Ruffians) and the Eyghthene, other boats in the class were GK 24s, Boleros and Sonatas, all great performers but not as tough as the Ruffian. Most have migrated back to Ireland, there are classes in Belfast Lough and Dublin Bay as well as in Hong Kong.

 

[lw395]

For under £4k, it's really going to be a case of finding something which does not need too much spending on it.
Engines, sails, paint, fittings etc can eat a lot of cash.
If you are going to sail singlehanded, you will probably want a reasonable autopilot.
Never mind standing headroom, some of these boats won't have a long enough bunk for you.

 

[lpdsn]

For under £4k, it's really going to be a case of finding something which does not need too much spending on it.
Engines, sails, paint, fittings etc can eat a lot of cash.
If you are going to sail singlehanded, you will probably want a reasonable autopilot.
Never mind standing headroom, some of these boats won't have a long enough bunk for you.

I suspect that'll be the way of it. One strategy would be for the OP to look around local boatyards/brokers to see what's available, remembering of course that asking prices are only that, then research the types of boat that he sees and likes.

 

[lpdsn]

You will not find a Ruffian 23 for your budget but it is a 1/4 tonner with real performance combined with rugged sea worthiness, I raced on one in the Irish Sea, North channel area with confidence and success, better performer than the Achilles 24 ( owned one and raced it in the same class as the Ruffians) and the Eyghthene, other boats in the class were GK 24s, Boleros and Sonatas, all great performers but not as tough as the Ruffian. Most have migrated back to Ireland, there are classes in Belfast Lough and Dublin Bay as well as in Hong Kong.

The Ruffians always seem to be able to handle moderately bad weather. Traditional Dublin Bay entry requirements are to be able to sail around the Burford Bank in a F6 and I reckon they'd have no problem.

The other Irish-built boat that slips along a lot quicker than it looks is the Shipman 28. There appear to be a couple on ApolloDuck in the OP's price range, but of course the reason small boat prices are high in Ireland is because of the hassle of getting one over from England after purchase, and the same applies in reverse.

 

[jwilson]

You will not find a Ruffian 23 for your budget but it is a 1/4 tonner with real performance combined with rugged sea worthiness, I raced on one in the Irish Sea, North channel area with confidence and success, better performer than the Achilles 24 ( owned one and raced it in the same class as the Ruffians) and the Eyghthene, other boats in the class were GK 24s, Boleros and Sonatas, all great performers but not as tough as the Ruffian. Most have migrated back to Ireland, there are classes in Belfast Lough and Dublin Bay as well as in Hong Kong.

+1 for the Ruffian 23, tough little boats that sail well. One was sailed to Iceland in the 1970s - met the owner there. Used to race a very tired one in Hong Kong.

Also lots of other designs that may suit. On a budget pick one with decent sails and general good condition and then ask about the design here - someone will have sailed one.

 

[rog123]

Thanks,

Interesting to know about the Eygthene couldn't find much info on them and good upwind ability is important to me.
Yeah the Sadlers look like a perfect blend of seaworthiness and fun sailing but most are over my budget, a few cheaper ones but no trailer and probably old sails.
As one poster pointed out I'd be too tall for the GK24 anymore standing head room in the Eygtheen?

 

[rog123]

rog123,

you could do a lot worse than a look at the website in my signature below.

I can't update it at present but there are A22's more recently advertised on Appolloduck etc too, if interested feel free to PM me.

Thanks,
I'm not familiar with the A22s will look into them but I'd probably prefer a slightly bigger vessel.

 

[rog123]

For under £4k, it's really going to be a case of finding something which does not need too much spending on it.
Engines, sails, paint, fittings etc can eat a lot of cash.
If you are going to sail singlehanded, you will probably want a reasonable autopilot.
Never mind standing headroom, some of these boats won't have a long enough bunk for you.

Yeah true lol.
I have no problem roughing it out so I'm fully prepared for the crouching thats going to be involved!