Small Boat Radar

[Dictys]

I think radar is still an good option as with just the EBL and VRM you can work out risk of collision or get a bearing from a racon, point of land etc. Most things give you a radar return while in my experience people tend to forget that many vessels do not have AIS, the AIS is switched off or they have older commercial class A system which do not always pick up class B AIS.

AIS is a good tool in the right hands but should not be relied on solely.

 

[Resolution]

Some things do, but not a lot.

That is where the GPS is useful.

Thank you for saying it first! A decent size chartplotter (backed up with say depthsounder to check) is so easy to use. IIRC, once you fit a radar the law requires you to know how to operate it fully.

 

[Resolution]

A fundamental tenet of navigation is that one should not rely on a single source.

Pete

Wasn't that because most "old" navigation inputs were either unreliable or a bit imprecise? Whereas modern GPS in most places is accurate to within a boat length.

 

[prv]

Wasn't that because most "old" navigation inputs were either unreliable or a bit imprecise? Whereas modern GPS in most places is accurate to within a boat length.

Spend enough on the receiver and get it within a cm or two

Still doesn't feel right to exclusively rely on it, though.

Pete

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Spend enough on the receiver and get it within a cm or two

Still doesn't feel right to exclusively rely on it, though.

Pete

Have a look at when a lot of charts were drawn then go and plot your cm accuracy on one GPS is not infallible and occasionally gives odd results or non at all.

 

[[70521]]

Thank you for saying it first! A decent size chartplotter (backed up with say depthsounder to check) is so easy to use. IIRC, once you fit a radar the law requires you to know how to operate it fully.

There are a number of lighthouses and other stuff that now broadcasts an AIS signal.

I wonder how they enforce the radar law?

 

[Paddy Layback]

U

?. IIRC, once you fit a radar the law requires you to know how to operate it fully.

Really? Which law is that?
Sorry to be contradictory, but I think you are mistaken. Are there any laws which require purchasers of Chinese electronic gadgets to know how to operate them fully?
Yes the Colregs do oblige us to keep a lookout by each and every means.
But if, for example, you have a working radar fitted, but don't have a dedicated radar watch keeper (meaning three trained people over 24 hrs) are you a criminal?

I was wondering about this subject while tied up in Portsmouth harbour a few days ago, when the harbour was on fog routine for a couple of days and nights continuously.

It was interesting to hear one or two yachts call QHM on VHF 11, in a real pea-souper, announcing their intention to sail (motor actually) to Cowes etc.
QHM's 1st question was always : " Yacht Random, please confirm your vessel is fitted with working radar"
but that question could be answered 'yes', without mentioning that you are singlehanded, or your crew is a bird you met last night in the boozer.
You know what's coming next.. one yacht answered the QHM radar query with, "QHM , this is yacht Rococo, yes the vessel is fitted with AIS radar, over.."

Radar needs a dedicated and trained watch keeper, who is current on the particular kit in use. (In my personal opinion.) If it is to be labelled a means of lookout for collision avoidance in bad viz.
However you can rightly say that a bit of radar is better than none, I guess.

I'm not arguing or dissing anyone else's views, I just find it a fascinating subject. I've used old school CRT radar on old rust buckets, and done the RYA 1day Radar course, which I highly recommend, especially if you get the chance to do it at an STCW95 place with a bridge sim, like Gravesend. (Also Warsash I guess?) A real eye opener which just scratched the surface and taught me how little I know!

 

[johnalison]

You are starting to make me feel guilty, since I have never done a radar course. I have been using radar for about seventeen years now, and I don't think I have ever been confused by it or made any irrational errors. Even since our first set, I have taken every opportunity to play with it, mostly when motoring in quiet conditions, fiddling with the gain and other controls, and where possible with the rain cluttler, so finding and controlling the functions is as natural as using the plotter. My collision avoidance doesn't go beyond setting range and bearing lines and although I have read about more sophisticated ways of plotting, I have no plans to complicate things, in the assumption that careful use, even if a bit simplistic, is a lot better than nothing.

 

[pvb]

You are starting to make me feel guilty, since I have never done a radar course. I have been using radar for about seventeen years now, and I don't think I have ever been confused by it or made any irrational errors. Even since our first set, I have taken every opportunity to play with it, mostly when motoring in quiet conditions, fiddling with the gain and other controls, and where possible with the rain cluttler, so finding and controlling the functions is as natural as using the plotter. My collision avoidance doesn't go beyond setting range and bearing lines and although I have read about more sophisticated ways of plotting, I have no plans to complicate things, in the assumption that careful use, even if a bit simplistic, is a lot better than nothing.

Exactly! I've never been on a radar course either, but reading the manual and actually using the thing makes it almost second nature.

 

[mainsail1]

Radar is wonderful in fog. So I guess I use it once a year but I still think it is worth having. Radar is the only aid that gives you a complete picture of what is around you.........even the seagulls.

 

[paulburn]

Surely GPS and AIS so much better than radar!

Radar heavy, unsightly, power hungry and needs regular use and experience to interpret.

 

[pvb]

Surely GPS and AIS so much better than radar!

Radar heavy, unsightly, power hungry and needs regular use and experience to interpret.

Have you much experience of using radar?

 

[paulburn]

Have you much experience of using radar?

No - luckily, started sailing as an adult in the post AIS/GPS era I've just removed all the radar equipment off the second hand boat I've just bought - and the mast looks so much smarter ! Looking around the forest of masts in marinas, most owners feel the same way nowadays..

 

[pvb]

No - luckily, started sailing as an adult in the post AIS/GPS era I've just removed all the radar equipment off the second hand boat I've just bought - and the mast looks so much smarter ! Looking around the forest of masts in marinas, most owners feel the same way nowadays..

Ah, thought as much. So how well do you find your GPS/AIS gear detects other vessels in thick fog?

 

[paulburn]

I think most people have AIS these days so little problem ? I guess the only practical issue are some fishing boats without AIS - but this is mainly a coastal problem and I tend to avoid coastal sailing (ie short hops) on foggy days. For longer offshore trips, when fog can't be so easily predicted, maybe fishing boats less likely to be encountered ?

 

[pvb]

I think most people have AIS these days so little problem ? I guess the only practical issue are some fishing boats without AIS - but this is mainly a coastal problem and I tend to avoid coastal sailing (ie short hops) on foggy days. For longer offshore trips, when fog can't be so easily predicted, maybe fishing boats less likely to be encountered ?

Bless you, such optimism! Best of luck in your travels.

 

[Baddox]

I think most people have AIS these days so little problem ? I guess the only practical issue are some fishing boats without AIS - but this is mainly a coastal problem and I tend to avoid coastal sailing (ie short hops) on foggy days. For longer offshore trips, when fog can't be so easily predicted, maybe fishing boats less likely to be encountered ?

I have a small motor boat for angling, and a yacht; both have RADAR. Only the yacht has an AIS transponder so I can see you if the fog came in while I'm fishing but you wouldn't see me.

To the OP, my RADAR is the Garmin 18HD coupled with the same plotter as you use. There's plenty of room for it on a 21ft boat and is able to detect pot markers on calmish days and bigger stuff in any of the conditions I've been out in. I don't use it a lot but when I do it's indispensable.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

I installed a radar (JRC) 10 years ago, half way up the mast; works very well. Naturally, I only use it when in fog; last time was five miles south east of the Needles, early morning in thick fog; peace of mind to know what is in front of you. I also use it when sailing at night.

If you decide to buy a radar make sure you practice so when is needed you will be in a position to interpret and to relate what you see on the screen. I dont understand how people can compare AIS and Radar; they perform different tasks.

 

[paulburn]

I installed a radar (JRC) 10 years ago, half way up the mast; works very well. Naturally, I only use it when in fog; last time was five miles south east of the Needles, early morning in thick fog; peace of mind to know what is in front of you. I also use it when sailing at night.

If you decide to buy a radar make sure you practice so when is needed you will be in a position to interpret and to relate what you see on the screen. I dont understand how people can compare AIS and Radar; they perform different tasks.

Do they ? I would have thought they both have the same overriding raison d'être - to allow you to avoid hitting other stuff in poor visibility.

 

[mainsail1]

Surely GPS and AIS so much better than radar!

Radar heavy, unsightly, power hungry and needs regular use and experience to interpret.

I would say radar these days is not heavy or unsightly but I suppose it is a matter of opinion. In terms of power use I only use it sparingly in thick fog but I believe it is essential safety equipment.
I will give you the example from last season.: Thick fog in the river Fal at 0600 when we needed to leave to catch the tide. We could have delayed the trip until the next day but that would have meant my crew heading home from Falmouth and leaving me to get the boat back to Plymouth on my own. We were moored a few miles up the river Fal and had to transit to the entrance in thick fog. Once we were a few miles offshore the fog lifted and the radar was switched off. If we had just used AIS and GPS I have no doubt we would have hit one of the many moored boats or racing buoys or some other object that does not use active AIS. The radar picked up absolutely everything including seagulls on the water ahead. Brilliant.

If you are not experienced at using it all you need to do is practice on days when there is no fog and you can identify the contacts on screen as real objects visually so you know for the future what an object looks like on the screen. My plotter allows you to have an overlay of the radar so you can tick off the charted buoys on the radar. Quite a few buoys are not exactly where they are charted to be so the radar helps to show their exact position.