Small Boat Options for the North Sea

[Yellow Ballad]

All down to budget, a decent Vega could be have for 7k, a decent Rustler 31 30k (I do know of a well sorted one). Obviously not so sorted ones could be had for a lot less in either boat.

If you're thinking a fin and consider the Vega you might want to stretch a bit and look at an Albin Ballad (as all "which boat" threads, you're compelled to suggest your own boat). Keel step mast, skeg, encapsulated etc all the stuff people "look" for, for this sort of stuff (but not needed before I get lynched) at a very reasonable price for a 30 footer. Just as good sailing as a Contessa for a hell of a lot less money.

All I can suggest if buy something setup for the sailing you want to do, I bought a well looked after boat but it was set up for club racing and now I'm spending a small fortune setting it up for more single and shorthanded work. Although I know it inside out and it's how I want it.

 

[JumbleDuck]

What other boats would you suggest for such trips or why would one of the above boats be a good choice over another?

I would go for a Frances 26. Very seaworthy, surprisingly fast for a long keeler, all work at the mast can be done from inside, beautifully made. Going bigger is all very well, but it means more energy and higher forces too.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I honestly think your decent fin keeler is called a Contessa 32. There are plenty of them to look at.

By today’s standards the Co32 is still quite a small boat and you may not be able to stand up much, below decks, but as a very seaworthy, docile, boat they are about as good as you will get.

If you like cutters (I do!) another contender albeit with a long keel is the Vancouver 27 or 28. The Vancouver 34 is a big boat.

The Contessa is a very wet boat though

I echo your views on the Vancouvers having owned all three you mention and sailed on the others, the 38n was a dog sorry owners. But the Vancouvers don't fit the OPs wants although the 27 would be perfect for what he wants to do.

 

[Ohlin Karcher]

On Youtube there are some videos of a recent trip to the Faroes, by James Harrison, in a Sigma 33. Worth a look to give you an idea, he's on Facebook and likes chatting virtually about the Faroes. Wind over tide is a major hazard apparently. Someone here sent me a Faroes TSA and it look, er, interesting..
I recently crossed from Norway to the Tyne, about 400 miles and we had 25 knots NW-ley for 3 days, gusting more, with large enough waves to be dangerous in any 26 footer, if anything goes wrong and you can't hold a course.
Going to the Faroes is a big crossing, impossible to predict a weather window long enough.(Navtex can inform you what's going to hit you..)
If you have the choice I would go a bit bigger, how about a Nic 31?
Anyway keep us informed:encouragement:

 

[scruff]

In the sub 30ft range, I had a Folksong on the West coast. A brilliant boat, sailed very well, didn't slam and felt absolutely safe. I sailed with a navik slung off the back which worked very well. The folkboat was far more pleasant and reassuring place to be in 40kts of wind compared to a more modern 34ft boat. Been there, done that. However there was barely sitting room let alone standing room. At 6ft 4 I could kneel on the cabin sole and head touch the roof.

How about a bigger version - something like a Rival 32?

Heading out to the Faroes would be a decent undertaking for most boats one of the key requirements I'd be looking for would be able to take good shelter from the elements when in the cockpit.

 

[Teko]

I have an Albin Vega

I'm a smidge under 6ft and only have full headroom in the companion way. This isn't generally an issue - i find the height of worktops/stove a little too low however for complete comfort. I had a 6ft 2+ pal on board this summer who get on ok. However, you can probably get boats with more internal volume for the same hull length.

I have a fin keel leisure 27 and where it might not be the best boat for the passages mentioned I do t thi k you will find a boat of this length with more internal volume

 

[Ohlin Karcher]

I would go for a Frances 26. Very seaworthy, surprisingly fast for a long keeler, all work at the mast can be done from inside, beautifully made. Going bigger is all very well, but it means more energy and higher forces too.

A possible rival for the Andersen 22?

 

[Daydream believer]

Just how much faster for the same length is a "modern" design? Enough to make any difference on a day or two passage?

There is a video somewhere on youtube of a delivery of a Dragonfly 35 from the baltic down to the canaries. He was making 7-8kts on a close reach in 15. I would be making 5-6 in the same conditions!!

Which if you take 7.5 kts against 5.5 kts is 36% faster. Over the OP' s suggested max 10 days that is 3.5 days saving
just shows how much better that small increase really is.
if you take a short trip against a 2 kt tide then it is 5.5 against 3.5 SOG which is 57% faster. Over 6 hours that can equate to an extra 10 miles which can make the difference between getting a tidal gate or not.

In another post a Vancouver was mentioned. I sailed in company, SH, with 2 experienced sailors in a Vancouver 34 over 60 miles in my 31 ft Hanse. They were full sailed and even though i single reefed the main and furled the jib i still had to go back 3 times for them in the first 30 miles- 20 kts wind broad reach. After 30 miles i gave up, hoisted full sail and finished the trip well before they did. They could not understand how it happened. A few days later one of the crew was sailing his smaller Vancouver & i simply blitzed it. They really are slow. The OP might appreciate the sea keeping qualities in a storm, but certainly not the performance.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

A possible rival for the Andersen 22?

I don't think you can get it to plane in a F3 so probably not. And I am sure it won't point to 25° TW.

 

[Kukri]

In coastal cruising, you can pick your weather (if you can afford the marina bills...)

Faeroes, not so much.

Other things being more or less equal, a bigger boat sailed conservatively tends to beat a smaller boat sailed hard and her crew commonly arrive in better shape... (cue chorus of "He would say that, wouldn't he!", but I did spend 12 years sailing an 18 footer before moving to a 37 footer...)

 

[doug748]

Just how much faster for the same length is a "modern" design? Enough to make any difference on a day or two passage?

There is a video somewhere on youtube of a delivery of a Dragonfly 35 from the baltic down to the canaries. He was making 7-8kts on a close reach in 15. I would be making 5-6 in the same conditions!!

Indeed, but putting a Dragonfly up against a Twister is right at the margins.
Most vaguely comparable sailing boats, ancient and modern, cruise within half a knot of each other. Even a tenth of a knot is a void in racing terms but cruising it matters not a great deal, to most folk. What you do want is a boat that will go in light airs, yet not be too much of a burden in strong weather. To to be responsive on the helm and yet not be flighty; in order to be both soothing for the singlehander and giving the autohelm a fair go (as the Australians say -)

Pushing the envelope a bit I would back the Albin Ballad suggestion, if the OP is Dutch based there should be a lot to look at within range.

PS:

https://www.botenbank.nl/zeiljachten/albin-ballad-30/caee4a6d-8ec1-4081-85a8-df2260661bb2

 

[Malish]

In the sub 30ft range, I had a Folksong on the West coast. A brilliant boat, sailed very well, didn't slam and felt absolutely safe. I sailed with a navik slung off the back which worked very well. The folkboat was far more pleasant and reassuring place to be in 40kts of wind compared to a more modern 34ft boat. Been there, done that. However there was barely sitting room let alone standing room. At 6ft 4 I could kneel on the cabin sole and head touch the roof.

How about a bigger version - something like a Rival 32?

Heading out to the Faroes would be a decent undertaking for most boats one of the key requirements I'd be looking for would be able to take good shelter from the elements when in the cockpit.

Look at the Rival 34 too, many say that it is just a R32 with a bigger cockpit - its not: more room overall, a better underwater profile and the option of a 5'6" encapsulated keel with lead in it, generally better fitted out too.

But I am biased (having owned both)

 

[JumbleDuck]

The Contessa is a very wet boat though:

And perhaps it's worth remembering that although the C32 is widely thought of as super-safe, its STIX rating was chosen as the lower limit for CAT A on the basis that it is marginally suitable for that use.

 

[Yellow Ballad]

PS:
https://www.botenbank.nl/zeiljachten/albin-ballad-30/caee4a6d-8ec1-4081-85a8-df2260661bb2

That's a really nice example (and it has a windvane), there's a few on apollo duck for sub 10k but over here. Honestly they're great boats, I bought mine from a yachtmaster instructor/delivery skipper and he had no reason to change it for the 30 years he owned her before swallowing the anchor, that was enough to convince me.

 

[Kukri]

Much depends on the singlehander. If you are Alex Thompson you can sail anything, anywhere, but in that case you need not waste time reading ybw.com forums.

I am not that good.

I find boats like quarter and half tonners skittish and hard to sail well, particularly singlehanded, they are very sensitive to changes of weight distribution and they give a bumpy ride when you are trying to sleep.

Conversely, starting from the small end, a Hunter Europa is a docile little boat with nice manners, despite the short fin and the racing dayboat origins. She is the sort of boat of which it may be said, Iif you look after the boat she will look after you".

I will always trade some speed for less tiring motion and greater ease of handling on deck, certainly if contemplating a passage of more than say two days.

 

[Matwill]

Indeed, but putting a Dragonfly up against a Twister is right at the margins.
Most vaguely comparable sailing boats, ancient and modern, cruise within half a knot of each other. Even a tenth of a knot is a void in racing terms but cruising it matters not a great deal, to most folk. What you do want is a boat that will go in light airs, yet not be too much of a burden in strong weather. To to be responsive on the helm and yet not be flighty; in order to be both soothing for the singlehander and giving the autohelm a fair go (as the Australians say -)

Pushing the envelope a bit I would back the Albin Ballad suggestion, if the OP is Dutch based there should be a lot to look at within range.

PS:

https://www.botenbank.nl/zeiljachten/albin-ballad-30/caee4a6d-8ec1-4081-85a8-df2260661bb2

I have 5 boats to look at today and this one is first on the list

 

[Daydream believer]

I sailed with a navik slung off the back which worked very well. .

If it worked that good, why did you throw it away?

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I have 5 boats to look at today and this one is first on the list

It will be interesting to see what you buy and how you get on with it.

You didn't indicate what experience you have either of boats or the type of sailing and waters that you intend to do it in. But the responses come in two categories basically those that concur with your original list and those that think something heavier and a little longer might be more suitable. I guess that those in the second category have a little more experience of sailing in "open" waters for more than a few hours. Where you plan to go is a serious journey with the potential for serious weather.
Good luck with the sailing.

 

[Skylark]

When I was in the market for a 28-30 ft boat, having exhaust my U.K. search, I looked within Sweden. The Swedes know a thing or two about boats and there are/were lots of small boat builders producing niche product.

I bought a Tetis 8.8. Sailed it back in some heavy weather and it was very kind to the two sailors on board, not so kind to the two landlubbers

In those days, the pound had some value so it was cheap. I sold it 4 years later for something like 40% profit.

 

[Matwill]

Well after full day of gawking and i think current favorite is the ballard. It ticked most boxes i have, the only real concerns was no anchor locker, this may or may not be a concern in practice, i have seen people make them in any case, and the engine access is limited. but in terms of offshore it has good standing rigging, with a keel stepped mast, encapsulated fin and skeg rather then a long keel a good sea birth and roomy enough inside. it wasnt as roomy as the sadler 29 i saw, but that had a single chain plate connecting the upper and lower shrouds (spof) and a bolt on keel as well as the weird headliner which i guess is their selling point, i just have nfi how you would service the deck hardware. it was a nice enough boat but i think the ballard is more what i'm looking for. the ballard looks prettier as well, thats always important ..

thanks for all the comments guys. I think my biggest takeaway with this years long process is be honest with yourself about the type of sailing you will do, at first i wanted a bigger boat 35-38 footer thinking my missus would come, but she would say.. i'm not going with you, your on your own, so then its a balance between what you can manage and what will be safe and be truthful about where you will go. i know i want to be in the open ocean, i have the sea in my blood, i sold my boats when i left Australia but the sea always beckons and sailing once every couple of years for a few weeks in the Ionian wasn't doing it for me. This will hopefully scratch an itch only people of the sea will understand. I cant wait to get started!