Small Boat Big Heads

[Signed Out]

Reading through lots of threads about "What boat", "Which Trailer Sailer",etc., it's clear that there is a market for a Tardis that floats, but until Dr Who sells the plans, it's unlikely that any boat small enough to fit on a trailer (towable behind your average UK family car) will have more than a cupboard that requires knee removal, let alone a shower.

In the meantime, what is the best arrangement possible, practical or available?

Offhand I only know of a few littl'uns (sub 23' I think is a good limit for this) with separate heads- Hunter Liberty, Mirror Offshore, Red Fox 200. But this is not always the most sensible way to go, and just a marketing tool, I think.

Personally I quite like the Fox Terrier way- foc'sle not forecabin, but it's not family friendly.

What say you?

 

[Bru]

Islander 23 - 22'6" LoD, four berths (all singles), chart table, decent galley, separate decent sized heads with plenty of stowage, reasonably big cockpit, outboard well inboard of the transom and all without looking like a floating caravan (IMO)

And with a trailing weight of 1380kg (not including trailer) she'll just about go behind one of the smaller 4x4's (Freelander, Yeti etc.) - although we've no short term plans to do so (we can afford neither a trailer nor a 4x4 at the moment!)

I agree though that usable "trailable" boats with separate heads are a bit of a rarity but they do exist and whether the pros outweigh the cons is very much a matter of personal choice. Whilst I could have tolerated the more common heads under the forward berth arrangement, I fully understand why the DLW insisted on separate heads and the setup on Brigantia will be much more usable by mixed crews than the alternatives

 

[ProDave]

Our little frolic 18 has according to the brochure, a "heads compartment" It is however as you have found out, little more than a cupboard, just large enough to fit a porta potti, with a curtain for a modecum of privacy. It's sitting room only, not surprising as none of the cabin has standing room height.

They have made versatile use of the space, as there's a sliding shelf that can be slid out when it's not being used as a loo, just big enough for a folded chart next to the companionway. Oh and the VHF lives there as well, again conveniently next to the hatch.

This is one of the things that made us choose this particular boat as it's just about workable. A lot of other boats this size have a loo (sometimes even a sea toilet) under one of the berths (often the vee berth at the front) which give you no privacy whatsoever, and are not practical for use at night (without waking the occupant and asking can you lift the cushion he's sleeping on to access the loo)

 

[prv]

I reckon the best approach is to stop trying to pretend that you can take the whole extended family away in a 20-footer, and limit it to two settee berths with maybe a quarter berth tucked under one side of the cockpit. Then use the bow as an old-fashioned fo'c'sle for stowing all the necessary stuff that's never on board when they take the brochure photos, and also fit the head in there. Admittedly you'll have headroom problems there on a very small boat, but once you get to that point I'd suggest that any kind of loo anywhere is starting to consume more space than it's worth.

Pete

 

[dylanwinter]

The slug

At 18 foot 6in the slug does have separate heads - but you cannot close the door

its a case of lowering cacks - and then reversing in. Not luxurious but at least you don't have to lseep with the bog

the other good thing about the slug is that the gally is under the hatch - so full standing headroom when cooking - when else do you need it?

the v berth ion the bow is fine for two - although if you have three people sitting down below the stern almost comes out of the water.

1200kg - so a heavy thing to tow

I myself never sail anything else

D

 

[finbarr]

I like having a proper head like on the mirror offshore. It's a good idea for daysailing or if you only ever sail 2 up. If you want to cruise with more than 2 people then a quarter berth rather than a heads seems like a better alternative than sleeping out in the boom tent as was the idea with the mirror.

The head compartment in the mirror is also handy for using as a wet locker though.

 

[Wansworth]

Toilets on boats are abit like in the movies,cowboys musta gone to the toilet but its never mentioned,as per the likes of Hiscock never a word......When men were men(pre 1960) chaps pissd over the side and did "it" in a bucket whilst ladies err see there is no historic data on the problem.The best arrangement I have seen was a wc upforard between the feet of the bunks with a proper hatch over giving increased head room.The Nic 26 has a simular arrangement and rodney warrington designed many yachts with that arrangement.

 

[ProDave]

At 18 foot 6in the slug does have separate heads - but you cannot close the door

its a case of lowering cacks - and then reversing in. Not luxurious but at least you don't have to lseep with the bog

the other good thing about the slug is that the gally is under the hatch - so full standing headroom when cooking - when else do you need it?

the v berth ion the bow is fine for two - although if you have three people sitting down below the stern almost comes out of the water.

1200kg - so a heavy thing to tow

I myself never sail anything else

D

My boat solves the "door won't shut" problem by not having a door, instead a heavy curtain, but same "reverse in" procedure.

My boat also solves the accommodation problem by having the vee berth raised, so the other two single berths have "trotter boxes" under the vee berths, so an 18ft boat that can sleep 4. But you would need to be good friends.

Because there are no conventional quarter berths going under the cockpit, there are instead decent sized lockers under the cockpit seats, and another under cockpit storage space accessed from inside the cabin.

Where my boat does let things down is the "galley". That's just a flat bit of worktop with a cupboard under. A free standing gas stove makes up the "cooker" and a free standing bowl makes up the "sink" which you empty by heaving it over the side. But no doubt there's room for improvement and it would be possible to make some more fixed arrangements, perhaps that's next winters project.

At an all in weight of 1450lbs (about 660Kg) very towable.

 

[Seajet]

The Anderson 22 has a seperate heads, closed off from saloon & forecabin by curtains; this is a major boon, not just for female guests but also avoids having the loo under the double berth, which is likely to be in the forepeak.

I can well do without a loo under my pillow, and chucking the berth's occupants out to use the loo at night doesn't seem very civilised...

Personally I'm very happy with a chemical loo, avoiding holes in the hull; modern ones are quite user friendly, one can empty them at a lot of marinas ( either at disposal points or down a loo ) or at suitable moments when offshore, the self contained tanks last quite a while.

I have heard strong indications that holding tanks will be mandatory quite soon; finding the space and plumbing one in on a 22 footer would be a serious pain, do-able on an Anderson but a pain, and effort & expense I'd rather direct towards sailing.

So what with that and the aforementioned lack of hull skin fittings, the Porta Potti seems a winner...

About half the 180 or so A22's have Porta Potti's, the rest various sea toilets.

There is another point, a sea toilet won't work when dried out on the mooring !

The A22 loo isn't luxurious, but it works fine, and it's there...it doesn't really show in this shot, but I fitted a 'bracing handle' for male crew to use when kneeling, along with a padded knee area; my stroppy feminist EX - wife took umbrage at this, "is this a male thing ?" ! Mainly for safety or discretion when it's too rough or crowded to pee over the side...

www.anderson22class.co.uk

 

[Seajet]

One point, I did read a review on the Mirror Offshore - a long time ago - which said, seriously, 'if you can't close the loo door, you've got the rigging too tight !'

 

[Signed Out]

Seajet, sounds like you've got the loo right by your head anyway, even if not under it, and only curtain between. Like you say though, you don't need to lift the cushions, or centre infill anyway.

Really though, seems like expectations are strangely high for such niceties, but I guess it's a case of don't suppose likely, but it's worth asking for the benefit of persuading significant other to the boat.

Do chem loos not have a smell? Chemical or perfume or...

Oh my, you've just reminded me of an experience involving a holding tank with blocked vent and plumbing in the heat of a Croatian summer.

 

[Seajet]

mrjemm,

the A22 loo is a few feet away from anyone in the forepeak, further from those in the saloon.

The curtains obviously help psychologically, maybe even physically, and the ventilators from the anchor locker right at the front of the forepeak ( it acts like a huge dorade box, closeable at sea ) keep air moving.

There shouldn't be any smell - if there is it'll be the stuff one puts in the flush part - BUT, and this is a key point I think a lot of people miss, chemical loos have a life ( seals ), and should be replaced every few years.

They're not expensive, and I think it's this failure to replace which has caused an inordinately large number of people unhappy experiences.

 

[planteater]

The standing headroom, proper door bog on my 22 foot floating caravan.

 

[Signed Out]

The standing headroom, proper door bog on my 22 foot floating caravan.

What is it, Planteater? The boat I mean. Assuming it isn't really a Cherokee Outback Adventure Le Mans Deluxe twin-axle plonked onto a pontoon, of course...

 

[planteater]

What is it, Planteater? The boat I mean. Assuming it isn't really a Cherokee Outback Adventure Le Mans Deluxe twin-axle plonked onto a pontoon, of course...

It's a Swin Ranger motor sailer from the early 80's . Sails like a bathtub but plenty of room inside!

 

[All The Gear No Idea]

Have you considered the Parker 235?

Looks pretty perfect for what you need. It has a head compartment, large stowage and a small galley area forward of the mast. A double bunk under the cockpit and one to each side of the saloon.

http://www.parkerseal.org.uk/about/parker21.aspx

There was a pretty recent one which was on the market for £14k last autumn, a good £8-10k less than the currently available examples of similar vintage. Wish I'd taken a punt on that one!

 

[Grumpybear]

Newbridge Navigator. 19' and a proper heads compartment with one of Jabsco's finest.

 

[Signed Out]

So it seems there are a few around with a compartment, of varying degrees of comfort. But is it really practical? Of course it's subjective to each of us. Many with a partner, family or crew who are not keen on a bucket or even a curtain, and then those with contentment in using the pushpit, with all levels in between.

Sometimes though, when reading requests for guidance in these pages, I have a mental pencil and paper scrawling possible layouts that would allow what the posters are after. Usually there's no luck in fitting all the desires in, and have to wonder where compromise can be made.

Quick question though... Are the designers that put heads compartments in small boats the same ones that plan seating in economy class for airlines?

 

[All The Gear No Idea]

Quick question though... Are the designers that put heads compartments in small boats the same ones that plan seating in economy class for airlines?

No, but they are all 4ft tall!

 

[Tillernut]

Sorry! I saw the post heading and thought it was about the more self opinionated sailers on this forum?

I'll duck on the way out!!