Small (and larger) immigration problem

[oldtraveller]

I wonder if any/many readers here have had a similar experience? UK citizen, pre-Brexit experience. You go from the UK to the continent in your own or someone else’s boat and fly back to the UK. On arrival at immigration, you’re taken out of the queue because of a possible “problem”. At the time you don’t realise it was because you’re entering the UK without apparently having left the UK. In my case, I sat there for 15 minutes while they checked and said “must be something wrong with the system” and let me through. But the immigration officer must have made a comment in my record on this, because when entering the UK by air or ferry since then, I notice that the official sees something and has to press a couple more keys to check that I’m not a wanted criminal and then it’s straight through. So, small problem, or no problem really. The bigger problem came a few years later when I tried to take a train out of Schengen in Eastern Europe. The officer only had a hand-held passport scanner which obviously flagged me, as I was taken off the train and made to sit for an hour while they checked. So this comment about “arriving in the UK without apparently having left the UK” (alternatively “leaving Schengen without having arrived in Schengen”) had obviously got into the Schengen Information System! Maybe it’s normal for the UK and Schengen to share such information, I don’t know…

 

[Tomahawk]

Since the government introduced effective mass screening for our borders, you are supposed to electronically sign out the country when you sail abroad. It is supposed to keep us safe from terrorists..Except of course it doesn’t take account of illegal immigrants in lorries and arriving in small boats.

 

[DoubleEnder]

How does UK government/border force know when we leave the country? It's been a while since I went through an airport but I do not remember ever having my passport checked when leaving the UK. Never done it when sailing either. Or Eurostar, channel ferry... just go. And never any problem coming back in.

I've always thought this was a massive gap in the architecture of immigration measurement & management, but have I missed something?

 

[RAI]

How does UK government/border force know when we leave the country? It's been a while since I went through an airport but I do not remember ever having my passport checked when leaving the UK. Never done it when sailing either. Or Eurostar, channel ferry... just go. And never any problem coming back in.

I suppose, when you fly into Schengen land, you do show your passport. It is scanned and your entry is logged in the Shengen data base, which the UK can monitor.

 

[st599]

The RYA seminar said the UK Government is rolling out an app next year for you to log in and out if you're not using public transport.

For logging in and out of Schengen, it's different for each country. Germany it happens at the Marina, France they're expecting yachts to visit a Port of Entry on arrival and exit.

 

[DoubleEnder]

I suppose, when you fly into Schengen land, you do show your passport. It is scanned and your entry is logged in the Shengen data base, which the UK can monitor.

True. But if I fly to Brazil? Or Thailand? Fiji?Those countries, most countries, check me on the way in and out. But UK never looks at my passport on the way out. I have always thought this was weird. If, for example, I came here as a visitor from CountryX, and on arrival was given a six month visitor visa, there is no way UK authorities can tell if I have overstayed my 6 months....

 

[DoubleEnder]

The RYA seminar said the UK Government is rolling out an app next year for you to log in and out if you're not using public transport.

.

That will be a world beater

 

[RAI]

True. But if I fly to Brazil? Or Thailand? Fiji?Those countries, most countries, check me on the way in and out. But UK never looks at my passport on the way out. I have always thought this was weird. If, for example, I came here as a visitor from CountryX, and on arrival was given a six month visitor visa, there is no way UK authorities can tell if I have overstayed my 6 months....

There I agree. The UK has no idea how many people arrive and never leave, or how many have really left.
One of the snags of not checking and no ID cards for everyone.

 

[atol]

That biometric chip and antenna in the back of your passport might have something to do with borderforce not needing to physically check your passport as you enter and leave the uk ?

 

[AntarcticPilot]

How does UK government/border force know when we leave the country? It's been a while since I went through an airport but I do not remember ever having my passport checked when leaving the UK. Never done it when sailing either. Or Eurostar, channel ferry... just go. And never any problem coming back in.

I've always thought this was a massive gap in the architecture of immigration measurement & management, but have I missed something?

As I understand it, this function is devolved to the airlines who are supposed to check your passport on leaving the country. For most non-UK destinations, you need to present your passport to get a boarding pass, and both passport and boarding pass are checked at the gate.

It's all a lot less casual than it seems - my wife once had a difficult half-hour when she left Germany as it appears she hadn't been checked out on a previous visit, and it appeared to the immigration systems that she'd overstayed her time in Germany (at the time she wasn't an EU citizen).

 

[DoubleEnder]

As I understand it, this function is devolved to the airlines who are supposed to check your passport on leaving the country. For most non-UK destinations, you need to present your passport to get a boarding pass, and both passport and boarding pass are checked at the gate.

Ah really? Interesting. But I wonder if there is also a negative report? IE my six month visitor visa has now expired - does HMG poll all the airlines to see if I've left? Or will the calendar set an alert on the basis that no airline has reported me leaving?

I'm not sure I would have a huge amount of faith in that. And, anecdotally, I have known people who remained in UK post expiry of their visa, and who eventually left with no problem.

 

[RAI]

As I understand it, this function is devolved to the airlines who are supposed to check your passport on leaving the country. For most non-UK destinations, you need to present your passport to get a boarding pass, and both passport and boarding pass are checked at the gate.

Certainly possible, if the the airlines' databases are transferred to the state.

 

[oldtraveller]

There is a system in place for checking who leaves the UK by plane, ferry or Eurostar. Just Google 'exit checks' for more information. This was introduced in 2015, but before that there was something similar called 'e-borders'. if you take a ferry, the company sends a passenger list including passport nos. to the UK Border Force.

I'm a bit surprised no-one else on this forum appears to have been stopped or questioned when arriving back in the UK by air after leaving by their own or someone else's boat. I met a boat owner once who often did this and was often questioned (this was about 8 years ago) but of course if you know what the 'problem' is and you tell them you sailed out in your own boat, I imagine that would be ok. But in my case I didn't realise what the problem was until later.

 

[STOL71]

I wonder if any/many readers here have had a similar experience? UK citizen, pre-Brexit experience. You go from the UK to the continent in your own or someone else’s boat and fly back to the UK. On arrival at immigration, you’re taken out of the queue because of a possible “problem”. At the time you don’t realise it was because you’re entering the UK without apparently having left the UK. In my case, I sat there for 15 minutes while they checked and said “must be something wrong with the system” and let me through. But the immigration officer must have made a comment in my record on this, because when entering the UK by air or ferry since then, I notice that the official sees something and has to press a couple more keys to check that I’m not a wanted criminal and then it’s straight through. So, small problem, or no problem really. The bigger problem came a few years later when I tried to take a train out of Schengen in Eastern Europe. The officer only had a hand-held passport scanner which obviously flagged me, as I was taken off the train and made to sit for an hour while they checked. So this comment about “arriving in the UK without apparently having left the UK” (alternatively “leaving Schengen without having arrived in Schengen”) had obviously got into the Schengen Information System! Maybe it’s normal for the UK and Schengen to share such information, I don’t know…

A subject access request to the relevant UK authority should solve that mystery.

 

[Marmalade]

UK exit checks are mainly aimed at non UK citizens and are intended to check that people don't overstay. There is also a security / counter terrorism benefit. I'm not aware that they are sufficiently joined up to know that you've returned without having left - and to say that you left on a private yacht (not illegal) would satisfy an enquirer. Alternatively the OP may have had something in common (ie a name or other defining characteristic) with someone on a wanted list - which would explain why he was delayed then and subsequently.

 

[oldtraveller]

A subject access request would tell me the exact wording, but it might be more difficult to have it deleted entirely, which I would want if I was planning any more trips where the border guards only have hand-held scanners. But as my username suggests, I'm getting on a bit and don't travel so much now - I was really interested to know if others had had similar experiences, not because it was a current problem for me. I think this must have happened to a lot of people, but I was a bit unlucky to encounter an over-zealous immigration officer at Stansted who felt he had to make a comment instead of just dismissing it, which is probably what normally happens.

 

[Marmalade]

Not sure, but I suspect there's an exception to the freedom of informtion act for information held for security purposes - such lists would naturally be exceptions or anyone could ask to see them - which would help the ungodly...

 

[Rum_Pirate]

It upsets computers when I leave one country on one of my passports and arrive in another country on a different one of my passports. Lol

 

[oldtraveller]

Well, as you're in the Caribbean, you'll probably never find out if you'd get flagged and hauled off a train leaving Schengen...

Otherwise I would guess that the only information they wouldn't reveal is if the police wanted to arrest or question you, but I may be wrong. I would think that if someone had an immigration irregularity, like a foreigner leaving after his visa had expired, they would let the bloke know. If he'd murdered someone before he left, they wouldn't.

 

[Rum_Pirate]

Well, as you're in the Caribbean, you'll probably never find out if you'd get flagged and hauled off a train leaving Schengen...

Otherwise I would guess that the only information they wouldn't reveal is if the police wanted to arrest or question you, but I may be wrong. I would think that if someone had an immigration irregularity, like a foreigner leaving after his visa had expired, they would let the bloke know. If he'd murdered someone before he left, they wouldn't.

Got questions when Caribbean to London on at Kitts passport. UK to UAE return. Questioned at Gatwick by immigration agent when checking in on AA to travel back Gatwick-NY-Miami - PR to St. Kitts.