Single handed sailing and running backstays

[ifoxwell]

Just a No No or easy with good technique?

 

[FWB]

I single hand my gaffer which has running backstays. It's quite easy and you just have to get into a routine. Don't let the runners put you off.
This short clip may be of interest. The first thing you see me do is to release the runner as the boat comes through the wind and then fix the new weather runner.
Gybing takes more care but I haul in the main first then gybe.

 

[prv]

Just a No No or easy with good technique?

Not a major problem. Kindred Spirit has them, and I used to single-hand her all the time.

Pete

 

[jwilson]

There's a lot of difference between most gaffers with runners whose main job is to tighten the forestay on a fairly stout rig, and big but comparably flimsy bermudan racing rigs where they can be fairly important for keeping the mast intact if sailing in strong winds. Some modern cruisers have checkstays that are similar to runners, but are there there mostly to stop the mast "panting" when the hull and rig are pitching in a seaway: again these are usually less critical than runners on racing rigs.

 

[ifoxwell]

yes I should expand on the question shouldn't I.

In this instance I'm talking about a 'flimsy bermudan racing rig' where the backstays are keeping it all pointing in the air!

Ian

 

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

Nice work, Foeu. Shows how it should be done for a gaffer.

Mike

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

I have sailed on a friend's gaffer where the runners were tensioned by huge Highfield levers in bronze . One had to be extremely careful not to trap any stray fingers underneath! As has been said above, timing is of paramount importance.

"Orlando", my friend's boat is, I believe, a Buchanan design in steel and he (Alex) did a wonderful restoration. She is now across the pond near Newport, Rhode Island.

 

[jwilson]

yes I should expand on the question shouldn't I.
In this instance I'm talking about a 'flimsy bermudan racing rig' where the backstays are keeping it all pointing in the air!
Ian

I suspected you were taking about a racing-type rig. My answer would be to keep the sail loads down when single-handed: you can always slow a fast boat down but you can't speed up a slow one. I remember white-sail broad-reaching a racing boat (with runners) on a near-plane at 13-14 knots. We'd already blown out both spinnakers on board. When a runner wire started stranding we backed it up with a spare halliard, reefed her right down and set smaller jib: she went from edge-of-control wheel spinning to fingertip steering but was still making 8-9 knots.

 

[Simondjuk]

Is there any kind of standing backstay or just the runners?

 

[ifoxwell]

Is there any kind of standing backstay or just the runners?

Good question and to be honest I don't know. I've been thinking about Oyster SJ35's, Grand Panjandrum sails on our river and always looks good but as much as I could race it with a crew, if I cant take it out for a cruise from time to time then they quickly loose there appeal

 

[Mrnotming]

Nice work, Foeu. Shows how it should be done for a gaffer.

Mike

Hi Foeu, I did not see highfield levers on your boat, so its slack taken up on a winch (marked line)probably.
The highfield levers others have mentioned on the older boats are fairly massive, and only one chance to slap it down, before all hell breaks loose.From that point of view, I think the winches are to be preferrred or even perhaps jammers before the winches?

 

[FWB]

Hi Foeu, I did not see highfield levers on your boat, so its slack taken up on a winch (marked line)probably.
The highfield levers others have mentioned on the older boats are fairly massive, and only one chance to slap it down, before all hell breaks loose.From that point of view, I think the winches are to be preferrred or even perhaps jammers before the winches?

Hi, yes I use self tailing winches for the runners. I have sailed Curlew, a famous boat owned by the NMMCornwall. She has massive bronze Highfield Levers. I don't like them at all!
On my boat the aft winch is used for the jib or backstay, works well.

 

[bbg]

FWIW the mini transat boats are all single-handed, and none of them have standing backstays.

It is not a problem once you have figured out your boat and found a good system. Tacking is easy. Put the leeward backstay on before the tack, tack, release newly-leeward backstay and tension newly-windward backstay if necessary.

Gybing takes more care. I would gybe the main until it hit the backstay, tension new backstay and then release old backstay, allowing main to run out. If it is breezy you have got to be quick or else the pinned-in main will round the boat up and you may broach.

You can see a gybe here starting at 1:48. It doesn't look it but it was blowing 20+ at the time (this gybe was slightly sheltered so maybe 15 knots of breeze). The other three boats behind me (that is what I am looking back at) all broached after a gybe because they didn't release the main quickly enough, and that helped me beat them to the finish. You can also see one little error where I did not sufficiently tighten the backstay, had to go back and re-tighten it before releasing the starboard backstay.



This was about 30 minutes from the finish in Madeira. We were a group of mid-fleet boats that finished within 6 minutes of each other after 10 days of racing.

 

[ifoxwell]

Thanks for posting that very inspirational, as you say it didn't look like 20 knots but then I guess a quick boat with the resultant reduction in apparent wind all help.

It does make me think that its do able though with some thought.

Ian

 

[prv]

Hi, yes I use self tailing winches for the runners. I have sailed Curlew, a famous boat owned by the NMMCornwall. She has massive bronze Highfield Levers. I don't like them at all!

That's interesting - there's a quote from when Highfield levers for backstays were invented in the thirties, and a large yacht was fitted with one on one side only, for testing purposes. The author talks about how his paid hands "schemed and worked" to be on the side with the lever, as it was so much easier.

I guess the other side wasn't a self-tailing winch, though

Kindred Spirit was small enough to just have tackles, with a jammer on the lower block like a dinghy mainsheet.

Pete

 

[Simondjuk]

Good question and to be honest I don't know. I've been thinking about Oyster SJ35's, Grand Panjandrum sails on our river and always looks good but as much as I could race it with a crew, if I cant take it out for a cruise from time to time then they quickly loose there appeal

Not certain as I can't find an entirely clear one, but having looked at few photos it appears that SJ35s have a quite useful looking setup. A fractional rig with a standing but adjustable masthead backstay and running backstays terminating at the forestay. The deck level runner blocks look to be set either side of the backstay chainplate, so almost on the centreline. Some also appear to have a checkstay working in conjunction with each runner. The backstay will give mast bend, the runners forestay tension and the checkstays prevent the mast bend becoming excessive and helping to reduce pumping.

The runners on such a rig are more tuning aids than critical support, so the mast won't fall over if you fluff tacking them.

I like it as a setup as I had a fractioanlly rigged boat with only an adjustable masthead backstay and tapered mast section, as the SJ35 appears to have, and couldn't get decent forestay tension before running out of nerve to keep on bending the mast to gain for more, and one didn't come without the other. At times, the mast was softer than the forestay needed to be hard and a runner to the headstay attachment point, just like the SJ35's, is what was needed to address this but was something I never got round to fitting. The checkstays would also have been reassuring when it all got a bit worryingly bent and bouncy looking in high winds and a chop.

 

[William_H]

A friend has just aquired a boat 32ft with running back stays and a fractional rig with backstay to the top as well. He would like to be able to sail single handed but our local sailing area is fairly tight requiring lots of tacking. I have sailed with him and found the runners a real pain.
A few options come to mind to remove the runners but the problem is you just don't know how strong (stiff ) the mast is to stand up in a blow without runners. One I think, quite good option is to fit a jumper strut to the top of the mast. ie 2 stays from the top of the mast to small spreaders just above the forestay (pointing forward but about 60 degree spread) down to the attachment point for the intermediate side stays. These jumpers can be adjusted to take the bend out of the top of the mast (or not) and transfer the pressure of the top back stay to the top of the forestay.
In my friend's case the shrouds are set to chain plates quite square to the mast so some back pull at the intermediate side stay tops would also be good to replace the check stay part of the runners. (stop panting) This could be acheived by adding chain plates aft of abeam the mast and adding or moving the intermediate side stays. In the same way but somewhat less effective move or add to the cap shrouds going down to chain plates aft of the mast (about 2 feet aft).
The stays to chain plates aft of the mast can cause some chafe on the main sail and limit how far the main can go out when running but my little boat has always been like that and one can cope. The further aft of abeam the mast the better support but more chafe. My own little boat 21 ft had running backs stays when I got it but I quickly discarded them as not necessary and a nuisance. The mast was stiff enough that heavy pull on the backstay got enough forestay tension.
I once went for a sail to help a friend who had bought a relacement main sail and he could not get the creases out of it. The sail maker had agreed to sail to check it. My job was to helm. Once we got going and the creases appeared the sail maker simply hauled on that back stay. The bend was to me alarming but the creases came out. It showed me that a lot of mast bend is OK. (if alarming.)
Anyway at one stage I got the back stay of my little boat caught on a navigation marker post. Before the back stay broke it put quite a permanent bend in the top of the (fractional) mast. I made up and fitted the jumper struts as described above. This straightened the mast nicely. (they were removed when I hooked another post and demolished the mast so got a new straight mast.)
These are just a few thoughts on removing running back stays. Of course if you can discipline yourself to lightly load the rig with small jib and light conditions you can just tie the runners back to the mast and forget them. I certanly don't like using them. good lcuk olewill

 

[Plum]

I admire anyone who sails with running backstage that play a vital part in keeping the mast up rather than just adding more tension to the forestay. I would worry too much and not enjoy my sailing as much.

Colin. Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[ifoxwell]

Thanks for the advise guys, I think I'll have to have a sail on one and see how what happens

Ian

 

[jerrytug]

I admire anyone who sails with running backstage that play a vital part in keeping the mast up rather than just adding more tension to the forestay. I would worry too much and not enjoy my sailing as much.

Colin. Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

How do you tell if they are needed to hold the mast up, or not?
My running backstays are rigged in a weird and baffling way which chafes the topping lifts, and I would like to avoid using the runners if not needed. My boat is unique in Europe. Nobody knows.