Ohlin Karcher
N/A
Yes, Mayday straight away, then it's done and you can crack on with whatever method. You can always cancel the distress.
Single handed MOB drill
- Thread starter GromitTheDog
- Start date
thinwater
Well-Known Member
How about stopping the boat with a parachute? It works with small planes.
This has been tested many times, up to 10 knots with full sail. The chute slows the boat to 1-2 knots without the crew doing anything.
I'm sure someone will hate it, but prove why it can't work. Obviously, the intention was a true singlehanded situation, when there is no one on board.
This has been tested many times, up to 10 knots with full sail. The chute slows the boat to 1-2 knots without the crew doing anything.
I'm sure someone will hate it, but prove why it can't work. Obviously, the intention was a true singlehanded situation, when there is no one on board.
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Neeves
Well-Known Member
In the situation illustrated I'd suggest switching the engine off
In a sea I'd worry about the POB running over the rope, of which there are 2, one for the parachute and another attached to chute and operated by the MOB. The POB then has to worry about a rope round the rudder and or prop (as one remedy is to motor back to the MOB), resulting in a MOB and a disabled yacht.
How realistic is it for the MOB to find the trailing rope and trigger the chute in a sea? I can see it working in water with no seas running - but if the yacht is beating into 20/25 knots (or more) and making 5 knots (not unusual) - will it work. You are more likely to become an MOB in 25 knots than 10 knots of breeze.
Brightly coloured floats might make the idea more POB friendly.
Jonathan
thinwater
Well-Known Member
The challenge is for others to think about the engineering.
Finding rope is a question, of course. Stay onboard is better, But unlike traditional "last chance" lines, there is no practical limit on length. 200-300 feet is quite reasonable. Without a large float on the end, there is practically no drag. All the MOB has to do is give a 5-pound tug, and then the rope goes slack.
Note that I jumped off a trimaran (18' beam). The typical 24' (7' beam) boat would leave the sailor closer to the line.
Getting the rope under the rudder is impossible. The system remains under considerable tension, because in the singlehanded scenario, the sails are still pulling.
As I said, I've tested it up to 10 knots under sail. It was not really a challenge, the boat just stopped.
But I'm not trying to convince anybody it works. I'm trying to get people to look at the problem in a new way. Throw away the box for a minute. Remember also that the project started with the singlehanded sailor under full sail; nothing else works at all.
Finding rope is a question, of course. Stay onboard is better, But unlike traditional "last chance" lines, there is no practical limit on length. 200-300 feet is quite reasonable. Without a large float on the end, there is practically no drag. All the MOB has to do is give a 5-pound tug, and then the rope goes slack.
Note that I jumped off a trimaran (18' beam). The typical 24' (7' beam) boat would leave the sailor closer to the line.
Getting the rope under the rudder is impossible. The system remains under considerable tension, because in the singlehanded scenario, the sails are still pulling.
As I said, I've tested it up to 10 knots under sail. It was not really a challenge, the boat just stopped.
But I'm not trying to convince anybody it works. I'm trying to get people to look at the problem in a new way. Throw away the box for a minute. Remember also that the project started with the singlehanded sailor under full sail; nothing else works at all.
Elessar
Well-Known Member
First person to mention the life raft. Hoorah.
Disagree with the rest though. A mayday call is a top priority. If you have to go below to do this get your boat sorted out.
scotty123
Well-Known Member
oldmanofthehills
Well-Known Member
The safety instructor (CG?) who gave our MOB demo and lessons pointed out that once in water for any time the MOB will not have strength to get in liferaft themselves, so was I planning to get in liferaft myself to pull MOB to safety? (Our dinghy was going to stand-in for LR). He also pointed out that we would still face problem of getting wet cold MOB from liferaft back to safety of deck of boat. We abandoned that part of excercise and no other club boat tried it.
As for Mayday, when doing fire training we are told first step is to ensure safety for as many as you can, then ring 999. Which in my mind means not taking your eye off the distant MOB for even a second and trying to get boat near them or at least stopped before if you need to go below to press DSC. The CG will call you back but until you have casualty secured to boat you probably really wont be in a position to answer unless. Different on fully crewed boat but thats not the OPs scenario
Being involved in a few real incidents in mountains and sea chastens one somewhat as you realise how vulnerable you are and how much effort is needed once it has gone wrong.
Listening on VHF to the controlled anxiety of a crewman who could not get tethered skipper back on board was distressing, and if helicopter had not got there in 40 minutes skipper would have probably died. I just hope I and Navigator never ever go in the drink.
rogerthebodger
Well-Known Member
This is the key in my book
I have a big MOB button at the help. I have a DSC radio mic at the helm. My dan buoy/life ring/ attached rope are all close to the helm. So no need to go below except to disengage the autoplot.
Note to self sort this out with a button at the help.
RJJ
Well-Known Member
The priority of a Mayday call varies according to the available help. I the Solent there's a great Heli and attentive coastguard; plus you're seldom more than 3 minutes from the nearest RIB.
Bit different in the Greek Islands.
Bit different in the Greek Islands.
Stemar
Well-Known Member
A mayday call is a top priority. If you have to go below to do this get your boat sorted out.
This.
I'm amazed by the number of boats sailed by a couple where the radio is below. In many cases, so is the plotter/GPS, so a handheld won't help unless it's a DSC, which it often isn't. Add the common situation where Hubby is the sailor and his Good Lady is an little more than an intelligent autopilot and it's no wonder an unintended swim doesn't end well.
My radio is within reach of the tiller and Milady's instructions in the event of me going swimming are to kill the throttle if we're motoring, try to keep me in sight and press that red button and hold it in until the CG calls her. Then she can stop the boat and see if she can get back to me, but I won't be holding my breath, especially if we're sailing goosewinged.
My priority is to stay on board. If I go over, I reckon my survival would be because, as someone once said of an ailing friend who refused to die "le diable en a pou et le bon Dieu n'en veut pas" - The devil's scared of him and the good Lord won't have him
This.
I'm amazed by the number of boats sailed by a couple where the radio is below. In many cases, so is the plotter/GPS, so a handheld won't help unless it's a DSC, which it often isn't. Add the common situation where Hubby is the sailor and his Good Lady is an little more than an intelligent autopilot and it's no wonder an unintended swim doesn't end well.
My radio is within reach of the tiller and Milady's instructions in the event of me going swimming are to kill the throttle if we're motoring, try to keep me in sight and press that red button and hold it in until the CG calls her. Then she can stop the boat and see if she can get back to me, but I won't be holding my breath, especially if we're sailing goosewinged.
My priority is to stay on board. If I go over, I reckon my survival would be because, as someone once said of an ailing friend who refused to die "le diable en a pou et le bon Dieu n'en veut pas" - The devil's scared of him and the good Lord won't have him
oldmanofthehills
Well-Known Member
Stemars approach seems sensible to m.e I keep a handheld in cockpit to manage fact that main radio is at nav station. I will consider getting DSC handheld but its gps flattens battery a bit. My dear Navigator is perfectly able sailor just not so good a sailer so I hope engine works if I should ever be so foolish to fall in unleashed when sailing down wind
pcatterall
Well-Known Member
Normally there may be 'best options' for crew depending on sea condition, course/wind, land proximity, has MOBs LJ worked, has he a PLB/Ais beacon?
For a drill to be a 'conditioned reflex' these options can not be considered you just have to let your taught reflex's work.
My Dan buoy takes around 3 or 4 seconds to deploy ( from the wheel position) if sailing I would always make this my taught 'Imediate action' then stopping the boat followed by
pressing the DSC button.
In choppy water you can very quickly loose eyeball with the MOB and if your not experienced/speedy with the sails you may never locate him.
For a drill to be a 'conditioned reflex' these options can not be considered you just have to let your taught reflex's work.
My Dan buoy takes around 3 or 4 seconds to deploy ( from the wheel position) if sailing I would always make this my taught 'Imediate action' then stopping the boat followed by
pressing the DSC button.
In choppy water you can very quickly loose eyeball with the MOB and if your not experienced/speedy with the sails you may never locate him.
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Old Harry
Well-Known Member
I would work on that assumption & not go overboard if at all possible
scotty123
Well-Known Member
You will be in the water anyway as MoB. The individual left onboard, does not need to be experienced/speedy with the sails if you stick to a very simple drill, as indicated #9
I keep emphasising that you should not leave the casualty, otherwise you will quickly lose sight of the him, yet am still amazed by posts suggesting all sorts of complex manouvre's, forgetting the only person left on board able to effect all these, is an inexperienced person who has been on a comp crew course, who will by now be panicking & possible traumatised.
Remember this is not a MoB exercise on an RYA course, with 4-5 crew helping.
pcatterall
Well-Known Member
Well.... precisely !!
lw395
Well-Known Member
The very simple drill in post 9 may be grossly flawed.
'simply pull the main in to centre the boom and put the helm hard over.
Some boats can go a @&%& long way in the time it takes a female novice to pull the main in all the way.
I mention female in this context simply because mine happens not to be a gorilla.
In that time, the boat might be going in any direction, or a random mixture.
My opinion is:
1) get the danbuoy/lifering set over the back.
2) stop the boat, if possible
3) Mayday.
4) attempt to meet with casualty at danbuoy.
But I think you have to tailor things according to boat, people and circumstances.
Elessar
Well-Known Member
The priority remains high. Effectiveness of calling may vary. Effectiveness of not calling does not.
oldmanofthehills
Well-Known Member
The priority after incident is locating the casualty and marking spot if possible. The next step is starting move towards casualty. By definition MAYDAY being third item is thus not the priority. Its importance is also variable unlike the other two items. Not much use if 60 miles off coast as no one will hear you. Not much use if rescue services cant get there in time to save life. Very useful in Solent when lots of boats about and RNLI at hand. Probably variable in Greek Islands.
For the OP like the rest of us, the real priority is to prevent the incident
scotty123
Well-Known Member
Why "grossly flawed"?
Have you tried it?
capnsensible has said that he, probably as experienced as any on here, teaches it & has used this method on many boats without any flaws, so must be some merit in it. You comment upon how difficult it would be to haul in a mainsheet to centre boom, yet seem happy that the same person could furl a headsail & drop the main, at the same time as sending a mayday & starting engine, all this from an inexperienced female in a panic situation.
You mention "stop the boat 'if possible'", how?
"Attempt to meet casualty at danbuoy", how?
When your female crewmember is doing all this, do you really think she will be eyeballing the danbuoy at all times?
A danbuoy is not the easiest to spot, unless a flat Solent seascape & she will be disorientated, not knowing in which direction to look. The "very simple drill", eliminates all that precisely because it is a "very simple drill".
rogerthebodger
Well-Known Member
I totally agree keep it as simple as possible even the normal figure of 8 maneuver would be very difficult/imposable when single handing as you cannot concentrate on steering the boat and keep an eye on the MOB at the same time.