single handed mast drop on Westerly Pageant

[dylanwinter]

Next question... can I drop the mast on a westerly pageant by myself

do I need an a frame

and any opinions on the volvo penta 7

D

 

[VicS]

Next question... can I drop the mast on a westerly pageant by myself

do I need an a frame

D

It depends on the mast step. If its a tabernacle or even a pivoted step you stand some chance with some sort of frame but IMHO it would be difficult to impossible single handed.

A lot of the Westerlies have the mast just standing on an inverted T section
You need the ability to lift the and support the mast vertically with that arrangement.

The lifting frame Compass 24 sell for something in excess of £200 might do but if the boat has a luff reefing spar that might make things difficult.

you ceratinly wont be manhandling it like you do the slug's mast

 

[sarabande]

a couple of strong aluminium poles (e.g. redundant (but straight) scaffolding poles) to make an A frame would make the job (relatively) simple. Adapt scaffolding clips to join them in a X shape, and to secure the bases to the gunwhale. Other uses include temporary beaching legs, bearing off poles, genoa / spi pole....


EDIT agreed with VicS. At least a two man job with lots of rope and winches.

 

[dylanwinter]

manhandle

the slugs short mast means that I can drop the mast 20 times a day - as I did on the Nene

but not sure that I would want to do that on a Pageant

but I could drop it and stow it and motor upstream

so has this got a pivot on it?

http://www.boatshed.com/westerly_pageant-boat-137037.html

D

 

[VicS]

the slugs short mast means that I can drop the mast 20 times a day - as I did on the Nene

but not sure that I would want to do that on a Pageant

but I could drop it and stow it and motor upstream

so has this got a pivot on it?

http://www.boatshed.com/westerly_pageant-boat-137037.html

D

Cannot tell what it has from that picture.
I'd expect a 1978 one to have the inverted T type of mast step. Thats what they were using on other models around that time.
Id not expect a tabernacle on anything other than a very early one but i might be totally wrong about that.

 

[Seajet]

Dylan,

I don't think the Pageant had a tabernacle or pivoting step as standard, but that doesn't stop you fitting one; I found Sailspar extremely helpful, and they have pivot steps to fit various mast sections - 01206 251348 ( no connection ).

How about making your own gunter rig and putting it in a tabernacle, maybe with wooden spars ?

As for engines, Pageant no. 1 - Dennis Warrens' 'L Gee' - had a neat but money-no-object BMW fitted after the original gave up the ghost, last I heard the BMW had gone too and a replacement was fitted; so she's on her third engine at least.

This is all so much easier & cheaper with an outboard in a well, better sailing too on this size boat !

 

[sarabande]

Dylan

I have a bad experience with undesirable emails after registering with Boatshed, so can't tell from the mutliple pics.

Last summer I helped lower a much larger mast, which had a pin at the T base (not a tabernacle). Using two aluminium poles as A frame, and four people on various guys, it went well till the last Two feet when the mast strayed a little from its directly fore and aft alignment. It needed a heavy hammer and much swearing to ease the pin free.

My own boat (24 ft sloop) has a galvanised tabernacle made up at an agricultural blacksmith's. The pivot pin is about 18" above the deck. Wooden mast about 28ft long. Goes up and down with two people and an A frame rig.

A tabernacle certainly gives you much more control at the base. It can also be used as a stub to support a cover when you are away and the mast is down.

 

[Kelpie]

Or...
http://www.watersidemarinesales.co.uk/boatdetails.php?id=126&forsale
'easily lowered mast'... although the engine description is, erm, confusing.

EDIT: or stretch the budget a bit more and get one *with* a trailer:
http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/yachts/seamaster-sailer-RBY226

 

[dylanwinter]

I have sent them an email

Or...
http://www.watersidemarinesales.co.uk/boatdetails.php?id=126&forsale
'easily lowered mast'... although the engine description is, erm, confusing.

EDIT: or stretch the budget a bit more and get one *with* a trailer:
http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/yachts/seamaster-sailer-RBY226

24 hp honda diesel

anyone know anything about these boats

 

[NickNap]

Pageant mast drop

You don't need an a-frame for a Pageant. Although you'd be unlikely to be able to manage it on your own. I've dropped my Pageant mast & set it back up again a few times, using the original Westerly brochure instructions - no problem but I enlisted (and needed) the support of two strong helpers.

Pm me - happy to forward copy of relevant Westerly manual pages

Nick

 

[dylanwinter]

is yours hinged

You don't need an a-frame for a Pageant. Although you'd be unlikely to be able to manage it on your own. I've dropped my Pageant mast & set it back up again a few times, using the original Westerly brochure instructions - no problem but I enlisted (and needed) the support of two strong helpers.

Pm me - happy to forward copy of relevant Westerly manual pages

Nick

love to see them

dylandotwinteratvirgindotnet

do the keels need strengthening like the centaur

any other known issues

D

 

[Kelpie]

24 hp honda diesel

anyone know anything about these boats

I just happened to flick through the list of boats in 'Small Boat Cruising' by Denny Desoutter and the Seamaster struck me as being quite like the Pageant, but with a lfiting keel option (so you can still go dinghyless) and half the weight, for easier towing. But I don't know anything else about them... and sorry for taking the thread OT.

 

[dylanwinter]

it is drifting

I just happened to flick through the list of boats in 'Small Boat Cruising' by Denny Desoutter and the Seamaster struck me as being quite like the Pageant, but with a lfiting keel option (so you can still go dinghyless) and half the weight, for easier towing. But I don't know anything else about them... and sorry for taking the thread OT.

the lift keel will not take the ground

it is in a stub keel

keeps the draft down but boat flops over

but there were also bilge keel versions made

but one reason for going with a westerly is that all those westerly owners might be more likely to buy dvds if I sail one

and westerlies are the classic english boat of the 60,s, 70,s and 80,s

although this is the same designer as the pageant

cheaper though

why?

D

D

 

[Seajet]

Dylan,

you may well be happy with a twin keeler as something which - if you sort out keel bolts & reinforcing - can be taken for granted, but lift keel boats which 'flop over' on hard seabeds at least have stubs or ballast bulbs to protect the hull - unlike your E-Boat which I can easily imagine putting one off lift keels one way or another - and legs on boats for drying out are not exactly high tech, just like everything to do with boats, require a bit of forward planning.

My lift keel boat settles completely upright - if on a strange drying mooring I stand by the mast and waggle the boat to sit flat - while I see twin keelers around settling at odd angles, one keel in a softer spot than the other or the mooring chain upsetting them.

 

[dylanwinter]

I love twin keels

I love the twin or bilge keels

I am thinking of those scottish harbours where you dry out beside a wall or on a rock strewn beach. I would be terrified of going down on a rock

and I am now getting stiff enough to need some head and knee room

the idea of a westerly dinette is stupidly appealing as the boat is going to have to double as an office

I have tried the wide dishy hulls and I loved the sparkling sail in a force three

but hated the slamming and the requirement to sail around every wave

I prefer the slogging heavy displacements

I am sure I would like the speed of an Anderson

but the drop keel is another thing to deal with and my eboat sailed like a slidey soap dish unless you had the keel right down.

a bilge keeler will sail as well in two feet of water as it would be 200

D

 

[Seajet]

Dylan,

Not many even truly crappy early twin keelers have 2' draught ?

Andersons are not to be confused with E Boats, not about dishy hulls and the keel is simple & easy, with all spares available inc new keels; not many new boats can claim that !

They are not light either, but by what I've always thought a combination of good design and a fair bit of luck, they'll keep going into a head sea; mine once beat a Rival 34 in a slog home into a solid F6+ in the Solent & outside, afterwards the owner of the Rival always greeted me with " I hate that boat ! "

I do think though that a Pageant or Seamaster would be better for your purposes, if only for the alternator charging, though a few A22's have inboards.

If I was going around Cape Wrath I know what I'd like to be in...

 

[Freedom]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpJs...DvjVQa1PpcFPC0ThDfgNUeqQD6gaYbWM7b26UnV4WjAM=

Easily done on your own, on the water too.

 

[William_H]

Single handed mast dropping

Yes you can lower the mast single handed on almost any boat. I have an acquaintance with a 40 odd fter who regularly drops mast for transiting under bridges single handed while under way.
Yes you must have an A frame to make actual raising loads reasonable especially if you want the mast really low.
You must make provision for the mast to be stabilised sideways right through the transit. Masthead rigs have chain plates extended up so pivot of cap shroud is in line with mast pivot. McGreeggors have a supplementary pair of stays also pivotting in line with mast pivot.

You need a crutch to take the mast when down to stabilise it even further.
If the crutch is high like 2 metres then mast is not lowered so far, so is easier to raise again. But does mean not suitable for really low bridges. A high crutch is oK for removal as you can drop the mast into the crutch then disconnect the hinge (tabernacle) and slide mast forward, then lift the mast down onto cabin top.
A high crutch means that you can leave boom attached.
In any case you need to do it a few times with helpers. Any boat with modifications can have easy mast lowering. It might be expensive though. A friend has a Sydney 43 and is about to modify mast for pivotting. (bring moneyyyyyy)
Re taking ground. My 21fter has a flush bottom when keel is lifted (vertically) so very shallow draft and stable on sand. But I don't think this style is common in UK. good luck olewill

 

[ProDave]

Re taking ground. My 21fter has a flush bottom when keel is lifted (vertically) so very shallow draft and stable on sand. But I don't think this style is common in UK. good luck olewill

My Frolic 18 is the same with a flat bottom when the keel is up and it settles nicely upright in the mud bottom of the harbour.

The downside, compared to a bilge keel boat, is you don't want to be drying out where there are ANY stones on the beach.

Regarding mast raising, once set up, it only takes seconds. The larger, or more time consuming bit is fitting or removing the main sail and boom.

 

[Searush]

Cannot tell what it has from that picture.
I'd expect a 1978 one to have the inverted T type of mast step. Thats what they were using on other models around that time.
Id not expect a tabernacle on anything other than a very early one but i might be totally wrong about that.

With respect Vic, and I do respect your opinions considerably, the inverted t-piece is usually bolted thro the mast heel at the rear end especially so that masts can be hinged backwards under control. At least that is my experience of contemporary Westerlies. I have lowered my Pentland mast with only my son's assistance quite easily and my W25 on my own several times. A Pageant would not be that hard to do on one's own. Many owners will do it twice a year for winter storage.

The tricky bit occurs as the mast gets to around 45deg & the forestay offers little support unless you have an a-frame. If you can hold the mast in that position & move behind it to support it from below & then release the forestay on a line then the mast can be lowered without even using an a-frame. The lower shrouds providing lateral support.

If you really want Broads style up & down capability, it isn't that hard to fill the bottom of the mast with lead & construct a tabernacle & pivot.