Single handed Lyme Bay crossing

[RobF]

That, IMO is rubbish. At night before AIS, you knew when you have crossed a ship's path as you see his navigation lights change colour. Now, the OP has AIS so he can see the state of play with ships.

AIS helps, but
a) not all boats have it (and some fishing boats seem to turn it off)
b) the presence of AIS doesn't negate the sensible advice in Seajet's post (in my opinion).

Nav lights are another matter. On all of my single handed trips in the last few years, I have encountered a vessel which was so brightly lit up that its nav lights couldn't be established. It's also hard to see nav lights in the fog (another of Seajet's observations!)

 

[RobF]

I think the enjoyment from it will largely depend on the states of sea and wind
If you're lucky, the wind will be from the right direction and it won't be too choppy
If you're quite lucky, there will be no wind and you'll have to motor
If you'e unlucky the wind will be more than you would hope for, the waves will be higher than you would hope for and you will have 12 hours of misery.

(speaking as someone who endured 8 hours of misery single handing from the Isles of Scilly to Falmouth today - the forecast F5 with slight to moderate waves was actually F6 with moderate to rough waves. Not fun)

 

[Greenheart]

I almost envy the challenge ahead of you...

So do I! :encouragement:

I very, very nearly bought an inexpensive but solid 24-footer in Devonport last month, and was faced with the prospect of crossing Lyme Bay the other way. I was unhurried about completing the purchase because I was necessarily delayed in sailing her home, by the weeks of easterlies that are only now ending.

Unfortunately the yacht had been used as a dayboat for many years, despite being a well-proven offshore design. She didn't have a roller-headsail, and the prospect of the singlehanded 150-mile passage back to the Solent, weighed increasingly heavily against the purchase, the more I reflected on what I'd need. There were several things missing from the yacht; one being the roller-furling genoa, so of course I'd have to go to the foredeck at times...

...but another thing she didn't have was any autohelm; so who'd mind the tiller when I dealt with the headsail? And, she only had vestigial guardrails and jackstay fixings...and no nav lights, nor radar reflector or flares; no GPS or VHF, no log or echo sounder...no tender, either...and only a rather ancient two-stroke...

...in fact I calculated that even before I'd arranged a mooring for her in the Solent, I would have more than doubled what her extremely decent and amiable owner was asking for her. So with genuine deep regret, I changed my mind.

All in all, I chickened out...but it's significant that I may consequently be about five thousand quid better off, by Christmas.

 

[weustace]

I am planning to join our club sail in company in July, which includes crossing from Portland to Dartmouth.

Most of the other boats are in the region of 30 - 45 foot and manage 6-8 kn. Paean is 24.5 foot with 19 foot waterline length. We usually cruise at 3-4 kn through the water (sail or power) and manage 100% tacking angle. It is fair to say we plod along. I use white sails only. Hanked on Jib which can be hard to change at sea due to a small deck space and no guard rails, so I try to pick a sail for the trip and stick with it.

I shall be single handed. I have a tipper pilot but tend not to use it in the Solent as its too busy.

Am I mad for even thinking about it, or silly to be even think feel the need to twice about it because its a doddle.

Oh and on the way home, I am seriously considering coming back via Cherbourg. Again Single handed.

Currently I have (and wear) a life jacket and an Epirb, flares, VHF with AIS receive, Plotter, but no life raft.

Comments please.

I can only give my own account of that passage; apologies if this proves unhelpful. I think I found myself in a very similar situation last summer, hence the lengthy account.

I did Weymouth->Lyme->Dartmouth on my own last summer, which happened to be my first serious passage in that boat and my first time single-handed outside Chichester Harbour; I picked the weather right and it was fine for me. No auto helm, 24' and about 4-5kn. From Portland, you might as well go round the inshore passage—if conditions are too poor to do that, I would have serious reservations about the rest of the trip as well. I wouldn't like to do that bit at night, either...

On the way to Lyme I had ~500m visibility in haze/radiation fog, which burnt off after a while, wind F2; this entailed a fair bit of motoring, which was a nuisance as my bungee cord auto helm didn't go so well without any force in the sails! I had visited Lyme Regis once before a couple of years previously and found the night approach quite straightforward—especially if you're going onto a buoy. Obviously check depths before you turn in for the night; it's also fairly exposed to the S and E, though the breakwater gives you some shelter from the W (not a place to be in a lot of wind from any offshore direction, unless in the inner harbour—and then not worth going out!) Consult the pilot book/almanac/harbourmaster if in doubt.

The scenery from Lyme round towards Axmouth is spectacular, and it's worth the stop just for that in my view—I had a NW F6, which was slightly unexpected, and meant a fast and wet close reach, but a very enjoyable sail. Dartmouth approach is not challenging in good visibility, with leading lights etc to help you in.

Really enjoyed the trip and think you'll be fine; as others have said, exercise your own judgement about when to go, but I don't think I would set out with a forecast F6 SW—which probably means sitting through at least periods of F7-8 onto a lee shore in a bumpy sea state. Not worth it when you're on your own—Portland is very scenic, so go for a walk instead!

I tried to keep myself clipped on to a cockpit D-ring or a jackstay whenever single-handed, and carried a PLB in an oilskin trouser pocket—if you do fall in, that's your only realistic hope, unless you have the cord based system Seajet describes.

I am aiming for the Channel Islands this year (all being well—but with a crew) and will hopefully return via the West Country. I am intending to hire a life raft for this distance offshore—Guernsey to Falmouth is >100nm, and for £200 or so I think it's worth the peace of mind—I would feel this way even single handed, but with a crew to look after too I feel it is advisable.

I suspect this is obvious to you already, but if going via Cherbourg (and even if crossing Lyme Bay directly), you need to be at least comfortable with sailing in the dark—well worth having a practice in more familiar waters if it's been a while!

 

[Seajet]

Dan,

you could have called / mailed me, I might have been able to crew.

Anyway - as for crossing the Channel - and I still say I'd choose not to singlehanded - I'd set off at dawn or before so as to arrive in daylight.

I'm too keyed up to sleep before a crossing anyway; I don't mind night sailing, as long as the weather is kind it's quite magical and nothing beats dawn at sea when the lights one has been observing for hours resolve themselves into shapes of boats, ships and landscapes.

The only reason I prefer to arrive somewhere in daylight - especially if I'm not a regular visitor - is in case a vital light is out of action...

 

[Greenheart]

Thanks for the offer, Andy.

I still regret not buying...

...but not quite as much as I expect to enjoy feeling relaxed about all the money I didn't need to spend.

I could plan crossing Lyme Bay in the Osprey...

 

[Seajet]

Go for it Dan,

at least Lyme Regis would be easy, unlike in most cruisers; I may even volunteer, if I get a waterproof camera first - I've already got the drysuit and can scribble out a will for my stuff on the back of a stamp...

 

[alant]

Obviously a reliable autopilot is worth its weight in gold.

A handy crew who can stand 3 hour watch keeping a lookout even moreso; especially if they're suitable for a cuddle at the destination !

You keep your perversions under control please.

 

[alant]

A day smoke flare is always handy, and a tip I picked up from the late David Blagdens' series ' Plain Sailing ' is that if one needs flares, you need white collision warning ones a lot faster than distress ones; I've been in this situation in fog on my first Channel crossing as we passed the Channel light vessel in the separation zone, we could hear ship engines all around us - then one came insistently louder until we could hear the bow wave; I jumped for the engine and motored flat out away from the noise; we never saw a sign or light of the ship but we were very soon rocked by the bow wave, too close.

We had the masthead light on and I had our then only white flare ( we were broke 17 yr old students ) and I'm not ashamed to say my hands were shaking - I should have fired it, but I very much doubt the ship crew would have spotted even that.

I now have two white flares ready by the cabin step.

Personally I would not go across the Channel singlehanded; the Atlantic maybe, but the Channel by our bit of coasts is just too busy and tiring - also though much less important, check your insurance re singlehanding; I asked mine and they extended it to 24 hours which I can understand, but it would be easy to get delayed beyond that and become uninsured.

Smoke + white flares?
What makes you think anyone looks out of a ships window?

 

[Greenheart]

I am planning to join our club sail in company in July, which includes crossing from Portland to Dartmouth.

It occurs to me that if I could count on the company of ably-crewed vessels, I'd be less reluctant to take an under-equipped or even wholly unsuitable boat, offshore. Assuming the wind was no greater than I'd usually sail in, inshore. I may retract this, if anyone offers! :biggrin-new:

It would also assume a very clear understanding that the "buddy" boats really would be keeping pace and looking out for me, rather than just sharing a general passage-plan on the same day.

keep your perversions under control

I hope that won't be an issue. I got one of those anti-perversion masthead floats.

 

[jimi]

To state the bleedin obvious, I'd make sure you've got a decent weather window. With your speed you are going to have to carry the tide as far as possible and going west you'll not make any headway if you decide to turn back.

 

[Seajet]

Smoke + white flares?
What makes you think anyone looks out of a ships window?

You would have noticed if you read my posts elsewhere on these forums I don't expect ships to either be looking or if they are to give way to my little boat, but it seems worth a try and only polite to go by the book - while bravely scarpering out of the way a la Monty Python's Brave Sir Robin.

I met a singlehander in Weymouth who'd short-tacked all the way from Grimsby " I 'ad a 250,000 tonner, an 'e wouldn't give way "

 

[oldmanofthehills]

That, IMO is rubbish. At night before AIS, you knew when you have crossed a ship's path as you see his navigation lights change colour. Now, the OP has AIS so he can see the state of play with ships.

In fine weather AIS plus visual with a change of watches all is good. My last crossing past Ushant was in rain and thick fog 1 cable visual and even with AIS we both stood watch for 32 hours to have 2 pairs of eyes in use. No sleep and strain, and the later celebratory wine at Camaret was well earned. On the return leg to Scilly in mist we noted on AIS a fishing boat in the dead zone between traffic zones, as we approached another 5 turned their AIS on and we discovered we were passing within a couple of cables through a whole fleet we couldn't see. We were fine but single handed it would have been much more of a strain and after that experience my white flares moved from cabin to ready use clips in the cockpit.

 

[lw395]

To state the bleedin obvious, I'd make sure you've got a decent weather window. With your speed you are going to have to carry the tide as far as possible and going west you'll not make any headway if you decide to turn back.

Indeed.
It's do-able, the main thing is you don't want to be fighting the tide.
I would suggest getting a copy of Fishwick's 'West Country Cruising' and adequate charts for the bailout options.
If the wind strength and/or direction are not turning in your favour, then Lyme, Exmouth, Torquay, Brixham are useful stop-offs.
There are some useful anchorages around Torbay.

But it might work better for your 'cruise in company' to take a berth on one of the yachts which can keep up with the group?
I feel singlehanded sailing is over-rated, particularly for people not familiar with their boats and their destinations. The simplest thing which is easily sorted with an extra pair of hands becomes a farce when you're alone. When I think of the somewhat chaotic nature of my early cruises, I recall many amusing 'unplanned' bits which could have become serious without SWMBO to steer or check the alamanac or whatever.

 

[Greenheart]

...in mist we noted on AIS a fishing boat in the dead zone between traffic zones...as we approached another 5 turned their AIS on and we discovered we were passing within a couple of cables through a whole fleet we couldn't see.

What's the reason why vessels equipped with AIS wouldn't use it, especially in a situation where their visibility is badly compromised?

 

[oldmanofthehills]

What's the reason why vessels equipped with AIS wouldn't use it, especially in a situation where their visibility is badly compromised?

If a rival fleet sees lots of fishing boats off the banks then they go know to there too, so secrecy means more money. I had comparable experience 35 years ago when going through unseen fleet between Poole and Cowes, but then it was just then turning on their nav lights, as we didn't have AIS in those distant days. Fishing isn't safe anyway and they probably thought leisure boats with no AIS could not sink them and big boats would show on class A AIS

 

[Greenheart]

Jeepers. Am I alone, thinking that the fishing industry is in numerous respects, absolutely deplorable, to put it mildly?

It's do-able, the main thing is you don't want to be fighting the tide.

My provisional plan, crossing Lyme Bay from west to east, was to spend the night before in Dartmouth, and start westward at the bottom of the ebb, hopefully with enough fair breeze to allow five knots from the 24ft boat, plus six hours of fair tide.

But I still reckoned to be a long way south-west of Portland Bill, six hours later when the tide turned against me. The prospect of spending the following hours slowly working up to Lulworth or Swanage on a dead run against the tide, possibly with the sea-breeze diminishing as the light began to fade, still makes me glad I didn't buy the boat and have to make the trip!

 

[Lucky Duck]

When heading East I generally plan to take the adverse tide in Lyme bay where it is weaker and then pick up a favourable tide near the bill

 

[Greenheart]

That sounds reasonable, Little Grebe; but doesn't it mean that boats starting the day sailing east from, eg Dartmouth, spend the duration of the ebb making diminished progress...so there's still a whole lot of Lyme Bay to cross by the time the tide starts helping?

I guess if the ebb is weaker in Lyme Bay, the same can be said for the flood...so regardless, the breadth of the bay is likely to be at the limit of coverable distance in a displacement 24ft yacht, especially if the skipper is alone and his familiarity with the ill-equipped boat and his possible destinations, is in doubt. The longer I reflect, the more glad I am I didn't go for it!

 

[alant]

If a rival fleet sees lots of fishing boats off the banks then they go know to there too, so secrecy means more money. I had comparable experience 35 years ago when going through unseen fleet between Poole and Cowes, but then it was just then turning on their nav lights, as we didn't have AIS in those distant days. Fishing isn't safe anyway and they probably thought leisure boats with no AIS could not sink them and big boats would show on class A AIS

Fishing boats already have a mandatory system, not AIS as far as I'm aware, which allows the authorities to check their positions & where fishing according to their licenses, so would assume their rivals might also use it