SIMRAD TP32 tripping out

[hb1]

Hi, I just purchased a Simrad TP32. While testing it, I noticed, that both in standby and auto mode, as soon as the push rod reaches the end position, the TP32 trips out for a few seconds.
When in standby mode, I use the buttons to control the push rod. When the end position is reached, the device trips out and I have to wait for 3-4 seconds until I can control the rod again.
In auto mode, when the end position is reached, the device trips out and after 3-4 seconds it goes back to standby. It does this at both end positions. Did someone else experience this? Am I doing something wrong?
Also, I noticed, the manual is saying that the typical current consumption in auto mode is around 500mA. Is this an average value? I'm asking this, as when moving the push rod, the current is between 1-2A. Many thanks

 

[srm]

Hi, I just purchased a Simrad TP32. While testing it, I noticed, that both in standby and auto mode, as soon as the push rod reaches the end position, the TP32 trips out for a few seconds.

Hi, and welcome.
You may get more responses if you post this in the PBO forum as there are far more techy people over there. (Go to 'Forums'at the top of the page).
However, if you just purchased the unit perhaps the seller should be your first contact.

I do not have first hand experience of this unit, but would suggest the cut out at the end of the arm's movement is a safety feature to prevent the motor trying to keep working against the end stop. A correctly set up tiller pilot on a balanced hull and rig should correct the course before reaching the end stop. Ideally you should just get small course corrections one way then the other, depending on the sensitivity setting.

Power consumption will depend on how hard and how frequently the unit has to work. The quoted figure is probably an average under calm conditions. When using any self steering device the sails should be balanced and trimmed to keep rudder movement to a minimum and helm loads light.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Mine doesn't do this. At end of throw it sits there and if the boat doesn't recover it beeps. What's your voltage like?
The 500ma is an average when in use.

 

[hb1]

Hi, and welcome.
You may get more responses if you post this in the PBO forum as there are far more techy people over there. (Go to 'Forums'at the top of the page).
However, if you just purchased the unit perhaps the seller should be your first contact.

I do not have first hand experience of this unit, but would suggest the cut out at the end of the arm's movement is a safety feature to prevent the motor trying to keep working against the end stop. A correctly set up tiller pilot on a balanced hull and rig should correct the course before reaching the end stop. Ideally you should just get small course corrections one way then the other, depending on the sensitivity setting.

Power consumption will depend on how hard and how frequently the unit has to work. The quoted figure is probably an average under calm conditions. When using any self steering device the sails should be balanced and trimmed to keep rudder movement to a minimum and helm loads light.

I don't have a vast experience in marine electronic systems, but I think it should have some kind of limit switch instead of letting it to trip out. I wouldn't want it to trip out in auto mode while it's unsupervised. If the waypoints of the cruise are not in a straight line, I imagine there might be situations, when the tiller pilot reaches one of the end positions in auto mode. If the waypoints are more or less in a straight line, I agree, probably the push rod of the TP would not reach the end points.

(If I post this question in PBO, shall I delete it from here?)

 

[hb1]

Mine doesn't do this. At end of throw it sits there and if the boat doesn't recover it beeps. What's your voltage like?
The 500ma is an average when in use.

I've just seen a short video, where a boat owner installed a TP and he did not have this issue either. The supply voltage is 12V DC, it should be alright.

 

[andsarkit]

That sounds like a high resistance connection in the wiring. It will hit the end stops and start to draw more current and the voltage drops. The unit will think the power has been disconnected and restart in standby mode.
Clean and check all connections and ensure the cable is a suitable size for the length of the cable run.
From my TP30 handbook the recommended cable sizes are :
under 4m 1.0 mm2
4-7m 1.5mm2
7-12m 2.5mm2

 

[srm]

I wouldn't want it to trip out in auto mode while it's unsupervised. If the waypoints of the cruise are not in a straight line, I imagine there might be situations, when the tiller pilot reaches one of the end positions in auto mode.

Are you seriously suggesting that an electronic steering system can be left unsupervised to make significant course alterations along a pre-programmed course using waypoints?

Your tiller pilot is a very useful aid, especially when short handed, but does not know if maintaining a course or making an alteration will put the boat in danger. I would suggest that it is good practice to make course changes manually so as to check on potential collision risks and the accuracy of the waypoint navigation.

Perhaps you need a basic understanding of your reponsibilities under the ColRegs. The fundamental rule in this case is:

"Rule 5
Look-out
Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available
means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the
situation and of the risk of collision."

PDF of full ColRegs available here:
Print the Colregs


The bottom line is that the skipper/owner is responsible for the safety of the vessel at all times and may have to answer in court should something go badly wrong.

 

[andsarkit]

Are you seriously suggesting that an electronic steering system can be left unsupervised to make significant course alterations along a pre-programmed course using waypoints?

That is a little harsh. Being charitable I interpreted the OP as meaning, leaving the auto pilot while getting on with trimming the sails, checking the chart and putting the kettle on. An unexpected gybe would be unwelcome at any time.
I have never connected the waypoint facility on my autopilot and like you I am happy to alter course manually and check around for any other vessels or rocks at the same time

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Are you seriously suggesting that an electronic steering system can be left unsupervised to make significant course alterations along a pre-programmed course using waypoints?

Your tiller pilot is a very useful aid, especially when short handed, but does not know if maintaining a course or making an alteration will put the boat in danger. I would suggest that it is good practice to make course changes manually so as to check on potential collision risks and the accuracy of the waypoint navigation.

Perhaps you need a basic understanding of your reponsibilities under the ColRegs. The fundamental rule in this case is:

"Rule 5
Look-out
Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available
means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the
situation and of the risk of collision."

PDF of full ColRegs available here:
Print the Colregs


The bottom line is that the skipper/owner is responsible for the safety of the vessel at all times and may have to answer in court should something go badly wrong.

Masive overreaction!
Lots of APs can sequence waypoints. Doesn't mean no-one is looking out or hasn't confirmed the route before and after programming.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

I've just seen a short video, where a boat owner installed a TP and he did not have this issue either. The supply voltage is 12V DC, it should be alright.

You need to look at the voltage when the TP hit's the end of travel. If the excess load drags the voltage down it will reset. (Just seen the previous answer and concur)

 

[srm]

Masive overreaction!

Perhaps, but before retiring part of my job was training MN and fishing deck officer candidates including running and assessing electronic nav and radar simulator courses. The slightest lack of understanding of the ColRegs was an instant fail for those guys when they took their final MCA oral exams. We play in the same environment and are subject to the same responsibilities.

 

[hb1]

That sounds like a high resistance connection in the wiring. It will hit the end stops and start to draw more current and the voltage drops. The unit will think the power has been disconnected and restart in standby mode.
Clean and check all connections and ensure the cable is a suitable size for the length of the cable run.
From my TP30 handbook the recommended cable sizes are :
under 4m 1.0 mm2
4-7m 1.5mm2
7-12m 2.5mm2

I will double check this, thank you for pointing it out.

 

[hb1]

You need to look at the voltage when the TP hit's the end of travel. If the excess load drags the voltage down it will reset. (Just seen the previous answer and concur)

I will do some more testing during the weekend, hopefully. Thank you for your suggestion, I will check it.

 

[zulloboy]

Two things are happening here:
1. You have a power supply problem due to resistance in the circuit which is causing voltage drop when the motor stalls at the end of its stroke. Check the circuit all the way back, including for any corrosion in the plug or socket (although you say it's new so this is unlikely).
2. Simrad TP's have end-stroke stall detection, which turns the motor off. If the circuit is ok, this will not cause it to trip out of auto. I checked my TP22 and what it actually does is turn off the stalled motor after about a second, then it gives a short pulse about a second later and if it is still stalled, won't re-energise the motor until it starts stroking back in the other direction. Raymarine ST1000/2000's do not have this excellent feature, which is why they have a high mechanical failure rate.

Also, these ( and the Raymarine ST series) tiller pilots cannot auto-sequence to successive way-points. They need manual acknowledgment when they reach a WP before they will start steering to the next WP in the route, otherwise they will revert to standby mode.

Cheers, Graeme

 

[Alwind]

As I've issue with my TP32 I did some electr. measurements and like to share them. They may help.
The average current drawn is approc 1 A. When the TP32 moved to the end position it draws good more than 7A. I did the meaurement with a regular multimeter. On teh othe side, my TP32 worked well with extrem low voltages down to 7,5V at the plug. Obviously, the power of the motor goes down substantial.
My TP32 stalls or moved uncontrolled to the endposition after approx. 120mins and I've not idea why this happens. I did a lot of measurements and tests. The 120mins can be repeared and is not in relation with ambient temperature. My boat is in the IJsselmeer, NL. I recorded the mangenetic field with a smart phone and also the electric behaviour (voltage / current at the plug) with a Rasperry Pi. The were no obvious issue presented. I changed the power cable incl. plug to a much bigger size. But still, the 120mins problem remains. I expect it is a software issue but without help from the manufacturer I cannot do anything. So basically, I will give up and take the TP32 of board and buy another type. Simrad was only reacted once on my request for help but with no result.

 

[andsarkit]

You can find the TP10-30 service manual online which contains the circuit diagrams and some faultfinding details.
I think it is unlikely to be a software fault that shows up after 2 hours of use. More likely a component failure. This can be difficult to find if it is intermittent.
I don't know if the PCB is still available as a spare at reasonable cost because the unit is generally more reliable than the Raymarine equivalent

 

[zulloboy]

2. Simrad TP's have end-stroke stall detection, which turns the motor off. If the circuit is ok, this will not cause it to trip out of auto. I checked my TP22 and what it actually does is turn off the stalled motor after about a second, then it gives a short pulse about a second later and if it is still stalled, won't re-energise the motor until it starts stroking back in the other direction.

As described in my quote above, the stall protection in your TP32 should prevent it from drawing excess current and tripping out. Try and see if yours will do as I described above at the end of stroke. If it won't, and continues to draw high stall current, it may have a problem in the stall protection PCB.

Simrad TP10 TP20 TP32 repair part - NonOEM Hall Effect board | eBay
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Simrad TP10 TP20 TP32 repair part - NonOEM Hall Effect board • $67.40

 

[jamie N]

I connected a "6V 12V 24V 5A DC Motor Over Current Protection Device Current Limit Switch", from eBay for about £7.00 or so, inline with my ST1000.
It's the size of a match box, 'virtually' foolproof to fit, and works.

 

[Alwind]

I found the reason for the tripping of my TP32, it is linked with the NMEA0183 bus I hocked up to the Pilot. I guess it is a data overflow issue and as such a software issue as I see it. I may disconnect one NMEA0183 bus partner after the other to find maybe more details. I decided different, whenever i want to use the tack function i will switch the bus to the pilot and afterwards i swich the bus off again. Yes, it is not the most elegant version but I'm not willing to spend more time in finding the root of the error and it works. I anyway will not use the pilot under wind angle continuesly.

 

[knot malarky]

I found the reason for the tripping of my TP32, it is linked with the NMEA0183 bus I hocked up to the Pilot. I guess it is a data overflow issue and as such a software issue as I see it. I may disconnect one NMEA0183 bus partner after the other to find maybe more details. I decided different, whenever i want to use the tack function i will switch the bus to the pilot and afterwards i swich the bus off again. Yes, it is not the most elegant version but I'm not willing to spend more time in finding the root of the error and it works. I anyway will not use the pilot under wind angle continuesly.

I came here looking for an answer to the same problem that I encountered on my newly installed TP32 (in my case the port-mounted pilot goes hard to starboard - minimum extension - after 35-40 minutes). Thank you so much for taking the time to come back and post your solution!

Additional observations from my sea trials:
- this occurs reliably regardless of direct sun / high temp
- occurs both under sail and motoring
- sea conditions do not seem to affect the time
- I have 8m of 2.5mm cable between the stick panel and the pilot (voltage not yet tested)
- setting a timer and unplugging/replygging the pilot every 30 min (power cycle) prevents the issue from occurring

I too have it connected to NMEA 0183 bus; in my case this is output from a smart NMEA bridge (Quark-elec QK-A034B). Won’t have a chance to test again for a few weeks, will try unplugging the bus completely, but also have a look at filtering the messages down to the strictly necessary ones, to see if the issue can be eliminated that way)

Agree this does seem like a software bug.