Shroud re-bedding?

[penfold]

When trying to take the actual window out, the inner screws are also sikaflexed and cannot be loosened. The view from the yard is that they need to be drilled out, which means I'm going to need to find new screws. (If anyone happens to know what they might be called, that might help me find replacements, I keep hearing something about a fish plate?, it's the screws that connect the two halves together)

We're also looking at purchasing a metric tonne (exaggerating somewhat) of silica beads as a way to keep moisture levels as low as they can be (and for a boat in the water, that's going to be some good going...)

Interscrews or sex bolts(ooh er, missus)

A dehumidifier might be more practical?

On a different matter on deck, it looks like there are no drainage holes on the sides, it's just a solid rail all round which means a lot of water is basically trapped on deck. Does anyone have any recommendations? I suspect I'm going to have to cut through the outer wooden railing and part of the 'lip' to create some kind of outlet in three places to allow water to quickly remove itself.


If that's the way forward does anyone have any tips on how to do that?

There's a scupper back by the secondary winches; I assume that it is trimmed to float such that water will drain there without problems; persuading boatyards to sit boats so the deck drains properly is difficult, the old man's has been parked bow downhill the last 3 years and it leaves pools of water on deck.

 

[KevinV]

This does not sound like Sikaflex. It sounds like my windows have the same construction as yours. I have resealed and rebedded them several times, always with Sikaflex 291. Never had your problems.

Polysulfide perhaps - like Tiger Seal, used in cars? Sticks incredibly well, sets quite hard, impervious to chemicals and almost impossible to remove mechanically.

OP, can you get a cheesewire behind the frame? That's how you remove bonded car glass. I've used 0.6mm mig wire with success, wound round a chunky bit of dowel for a handle either end. It's about the only vaguely helpful suggestion I have

 

[Humblebee]

Interscrews or sex bolts(ooh er, missus)

A dehumidifier might be more practical?


There's a scupper back by the secondary winches; I assume that it is trimmed to float such that water will drain there without problems; persuading boatyards to sit boats so the deck drains properly is difficult, the old man's has been parked bow downhill the last 3 years and it leaves pools of water on deck.

Yep, Interscrews, as Penfold says.
Link here but widely available.

Interscrews

 

[Luminescent]

This does not sound like Sikaflex. It sounds like my windows have the same construction as yours. I have resealed and rebedded them several times, always with Sikaflex 291. Never had your problems.

It could be just very old. But it's set very well and can only be removed with a scraper.

 

[Luminescent]

Some of these Poly Adhesive sealants set like concrete. Chemical removal only works with the smallest amount of sealant once its already cured. I'm looking at the same challenge on mine in the next few weeks. Plan to do exactly the same as you but have been given 3 pieces of advice. Firstly, heat up the frame and the screws with a heat gun if necessary to break the seal. Secondly, use a Dremel and attachment to remove Sikaflex from the frame if its set solid. Lastly, consider replacing aluminium frames with bonded rubber seals if all else fails. I have more info on all if this helps.

Where are you berthed?.

All the way down in Pembroke. :3

 

[Luminescent]

Polysulfide perhaps - like Tiger Seal, used in cars? Sticks incredibly well, sets quite hard, impervious to chemicals and almost impossible to remove mechanically.

OP, can you get a cheesewire behind the frame? That's how you remove bonded car glass. I've used 0.6mm mig wire with success, wound round a chunky bit of dowel for a handle either end. It's about the only vaguely helpful suggestion I have

We can fortunately scrape it it out with normal scrapers/knives. Our problem at the moment is with the inner screws. Which we're going to have to drill out.
I have no guarantee that it is actually Sikaflex it could be another curing sealant. However, the yard suggested it does seem like the stuff.

 

[Luminescent]

Interscrews or sex bolts(ooh er, missus)

A dehumidifier might be more practical?


There's a scupper back by the secondary winches; I assume that it is trimmed to float such that water will drain there without problems; persuading boatyards to sit boats so the deck drains properly is difficult, the old man's has been parked bow downhill the last 3 years and it leaves pools of water on deck.

Thank you for this, will have to order a batch, much appreciated!

 

[Luminescent]

So... one broken elbow later (unrelated but causing mass mayhem) and lots of struggling with ONE window.... (yeesh), I'm hardly any further forward. What I've managed to do is extract one window out of the boat, but it is not possible to take it apart without cracking the window. Unfortunately whatever was used to seal the window has a) hardened worse than concrete b) was put together with such pressure and for such a long time that the yard has stated that they can't do it without breaking the window. The screws that hold the two halves together are impossible to get out, drilling them out will also cause additional damage.

The current advice is to dig out what sealant I can and then with the window in place, fill with sikaflex. However, the outer frames I can still do with butyl so that's a none issue.

I don't feel like this is a great solution and I do want to rebed the windows properly, but it looks like I'm going to have to get full replacements. (Windows and possible frames) does anyone know where in the UK would be best to get these from? If I have to import from abroad it's not too much a problem I'd rather purchase locally all things being equal. There are six windows all in and yep, all different shapes and sizes from what I can tell (in pairs at least).

 

[roaringgirl]

We used to have those domed heads, last time we resealed the windows we replaced with machine screws as they're much easier to work with

I strongly recommend NOT using a setting sealant as tightening the rig, or sailing can cause enough movement to open up cracks. Butyl non-setting sealant is far better.

 

[Tranona]

If they are non opening windows then maybe replace with acrylic or polycarbonate either screwed on if the coachroof will hold screws or through bolted. Suspect that some of the sisterships will have used this method as custom made framed windows are hugely expensive. The brochure photos suggest acrylic windows and Marcon used them extensively on later boats, as did a lot of builders at the time mainly for lower cost and simplicity.

 

[penfold]

Binning the frames does change the aesthetics and perhaps looks a bit homemade, but as noted framed windows are expensive in comparison with a shaped piece of perspex, if they need to be curved(the coachroof sides do seem to have a curve in the pics) then they are very expensive.

 

[Tranona]

If you want the frame look you can always have a trim frame made of stainless covering the area where the fixings are. If you look at the photos in the Yachtsnet archive you will see 2 of the boats have acrylic windows and one framed. The framed look can be replicated as suggested.
yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/javelin-30/javelin-30.htm

 

[Luminescent]

So basically... everyone is advising basically just to cover the portholes with acryllic and bolt them through? I can probably use the existing frame holes if that's the case. I don't know too much about acrylic windows. Potentially I'd like to get them in two halves and bolt them together (one inside and one outside, using butyl as sealant. I can probably 're-use' the outer frames anyway as long as the perspex is thick enough (or I find some way to pad them out). I'll need to find a suitable manufacturer and see if acrylic/perspex is the most suitable material for my use case or if there's something else I can use.

All re-bedding will definitely be done with butyl (unless I expect it to stay sealed forever, windows and shroud plates are sadly not in that category).

Aesthetics don't really bother me too much fortunately as long as it does the job. My worries with plastic is UV protection but I'll sort that out.

 

[Tranona]

4 to 6mm acrylic will be fine depending on how large they are. There are plenty of suppliers either on line or local like a sign maker who will cut to your pattern, route the edges and rill clearance holes for (probably) M4 or M5 raised head countersunk machine screws. Bed in Butyl or Polysulphide and dome nuts internally. If you can re-use the existing frames as trim then sealant between that and the acrylic. You can get clear or a range of tints.

It is actually not a difficult DIY job but rather time consuming to cut with a jigsaw and get a good finish on the edges by hand plus drilling and probably countersinking all the holes. I have done it both ways and from a distance you can't tell the difference, but cNC cut and routed looks better close up and saves a lot of work.