should we look seriously at this boat?? (westerly griffon bilge)

[niccapotamus]

I've just spoken to the owner who has had the boat for many many years which sounds like a good sign. There are a number of items that he thinks need doing that are just routine maintenance but the list of bigger jobs is:

it has a 33 year old volvo engine running fine at the moment - but I presume that it will die at some point in the near future.
the standing and running rigging is about 12 years old
the sails are about 12 years old
the windows need replacing
and it has about 2sq foot of osmosis blistering - not severe and the boat was treated some time ago
the headlining in the forecabin is down (westerly headlining!!)

what do you guys think - does anyone have an idea of the rough costs of any of these issues?

Other than that I think it has been cared for and the owner sounds quite particular - it will come with a very full inventory as they are giving up sailing which is a plus but i must say that I'm a little daunted by the osmosis and probably the age of the engine (MD7a maybe 15hp)

the boat is being offered at the lower end of the price range for a griffon....

cheers

Nick

 

[Searush]

It just depends how much, if anything, you want to spend.

The engine, rigging & sails are all serviceable so don't NEED replacing for some time yet unless you are very pernickety. Osmosis is purely cosmetic & can be ground out & filled with a bit of elbow grease & filler, perhaps a coat of paint after if you don't like the seagull poo spotted effect. Headlining can be fastened back up in an afternoon using pine beading from any DIY store for under a tenner. Get 1" wide by 1/8" deep D section beading & cut it to exactly the right length to slip behind the curtain rail. It looks good, is easy to do, costs little & lasts for years & years.

The windows probably only need resealing, Westerly used laminated glass so that doesn't need replacing. You could just use captain Tolleys.

Or you could go to a yard and spend 20k getting it all put "right".

 

[chewi]

Griffon is a good boat. A mate of mine has one.

The engine cold die next week or next week + 10yrs or more.
you could then replace with a recon £2000 + DIY fitting or with new 4000 + fitting, depending on how long you expect to keep the boat.

The headlining is well treated in other threads. The forecabin esp. difficult. I would consider removing the existing , get rid of all the dead foam from both surfaces, stick doublesided selfadhesive foam (Hawke house) in panels to the hull and refit the current headlining if it cleans up OK.

Most boats of that vintage have crazed windows, it's not essential to replace them if they don't leak. leave that to another day. I tried to replace my crazed windows in alloy frames (cobra 750), but the violence needed to get the frame off the boat stopped me in my tracks, it wasn't worth it.


Standing rigging replacement varies from insce co to another. I'd wait till they require it , then tick their box. If you do it before that, keep the evidence, or you'll be doing at again.

I can't speak for the osmosis, but its a small patch, so can't be that difficult to dry out artificially & treat.

 

[neilf39]

Doesn't look like any reasons not to seriously consider.

Why do you think the engine will die in the near future? Does it sound rough, knock, rattle, been abused, or does it run ok? My engine is 34 years old as the original fitted in my Westerly Konsort and at risk of putting the mockers on it it is going fine. Should keep going for ages if it has been well maintained. If you have doubts get the engine assessed by a trusted mechanic and if you want it to be completely overhauled, e.g. dismantled, head skimmed etc. for peace of mind then allow £1.5 - £2k unless you do it yourself.

You may want to replace the standing rigging for peace of mind or because the insurers may require it. Again depends on how it has been set up and treated. Some on here seem to keep theirs for 15+ years.

Running rigging, if the ropes look ok and are not UV degraded then replace over a period of time starting with the worst ones. If you replaced just the main halyards and sheets it would probably be at least 100M worth of 10 - 12mm.

Osmosis, my boat has it all over the place. Mostly small blisters that are not deep and have popped and are now dry so filled with epoxy filler as and when. Yours sound pretty cosmetic so unless they are deep and weeping just live with them. if you are going to keep her out of the water over winter you can do a bit of treatment to make them look a bit better if so inclined.

Headlining is no big issue, again cosmetic and something to do at leisure.

What state are the sails in? If they are serviceable then look to replace them over a period of time. Could be the most expensive item of those listed to replace and cost could vary considerably depending what type and quality you would consider. Not going to hazard a guess but try a few sailmakers they will know what size a Griffons sails are.

Allow ~£750 - 1k for standing rigging at a guess which may be on the pessimistic side.The rest can be done for little money over time.

 

[pcatterall]

Yes as per all the other suggestions. Just budget for those big items over time, I assume the price reflects those items. 2 square feet of osmosis sounds wonderful!

 

[Tam Lin]

On the other hand for a bit more money you could get one which has had all the things you mentioned replaced, saving you time, worry and money. You will never get back what you spend on her so why not let someone else take the hit?
Have a look at the Westerly owners' site as they have info about each class of boat. I think it was thd keel problem with the Griffon which helped them to go bust! Nice boats but check the keel issue has been sorted.

 

[30boat]

That pretty much describes my present boat when I got her and the previous one except she was even worse.Everything is fixable if you have the time and the will.I did it and so can you.

 

[Bobc]

That's like saying "is it worth buying a 10 year old Mondeo with 150k on the clock, worn carpets and seats, and in need of a new exhaust".

It all depends on what you're looking for, how much you want to spend (or have to spend), and what you intend to do with it.

 

[Eyore]

Don't let the engine worry you unless there are specific issues concerning you. It may well outlast the boat with a little TLC, my engine is 44 years old and (touch wood) reliable.

 

[Sandy]

the boat is being offered at the lower end of the price range for a griffon....

I looked at a lot of Griffons when selecting my boat. There were a huge number to choose from all within £1000 of each other - there were some fantastic ones and others that I took one look at said "non" and walked away. There will be a lot of better boats out there. (That engine should just about be run in by now.)

 

[Searush]

That's like saying "is it worth buying a 10 year old Mondeo with 150k on the clock, worn carpets and seats, and in need of a new exhaust".

It all depends on what you're looking for, how much you want to spend (or have to spend), and what you intend to do with it.

Not really, that's a bad analogy cos that's an end of life car.

The Griffon is probably the equivalent of a 3 year old average mileage car that needs a few tweaks to tidy it up. There are plenty of 50 & 60 year old GRP boats still giving sterling service to their owners & still in excellent condition. My first boat is now 51 and looks better than when I bought her in 1981.

 

[Ruffles]

Are you a dinghy sailor? If you're into actual sailing I'd recommend budgeting and ordering new sails. You'll enjoy the boat so much more. (And ask the sailmaker to comment or assist in tuning the rig at the same time.) We spent years going sideways with an old main. Bit bonkers in retrospect.

Otherwise the old sails could be fine for pottering about if that's what you want.

If you're considering a new engine suggest getting a quote now. Could be that a pricier Griffon with a new engine will seem a lot better value.

 

[mickywillis]

I assume you are looking at this boat right?
http://www.boatshed.com/westerly_griffon-boat-167521.html
Good value for money if you can do all the necessary work to it.
Survey? Maybe worth taking a chance, I'm sure you'd be able to re-sell for about the same money if it goes belly up.
I thought about looking at that one, but a bit too far from me. With all the bits that need doing, budget on at least £10K (maybe more) if you are getting someone in to do the work or possibly £6-8K doing the work yourself.
Looks like the fore hatch may be leaking (tarpaulin over it?)
Is that a crack at the very front of the anchor locker? Running top to bottom, centre of picture, just above the boatshed watermark.
Electrics look like they may need attention.
Engine rusty externally but may be OK, would need to see/hear it run to decide.
Obviously headlinings.
Ropes and woodwork look very neglected, green algae everywhere.
Cockpit sole treadmaster anti slip looks ready to come up?
Not sure about that floor in the saloon, is it covering something? There seems to be water staining marks at the base of the bulhead between saloon and forward cabin. Has the floor been under water at some time?
Toilet needs replacing.
Any electronics included? (not mentioned in advert)
I would think its been standing around the yard for some time, neglected by the owners (possibly elderly/deceased?) so you could uncover a treasure trove if it all cleans up OK.

Personally I think it would be better spending an extra £6-7K on something already done, but obviously depends on your budget, how confident you feel about doing the work and if you are prepared for a project.
Whatever you do, keep us informed!

 

[niccapotamus]

I assume you are looking at this boat right?
http://www.boatshed.com/westerly_griffon-boat-167521.html

Whatever you do, keep us informed!

no it isn't that one - the one i'm talking about distracted me on EBAY and is up for 10K. I didn't get told off by SWMBO when I mentioned that I had asked for details.

On the positive side it has been in the same ownership for 25 years and is coming with everything needed to go sailing (which we'd need) and I think it is in better condition than the one that you have highlighted. The owner sounds quite fastidious so it may be that the faults are not as big an issue as described.

TBH there are quite a few for sale between 7.5K (that one!) and 15K and we ought to go and look at a fair number. My wife's foot is in plaster at the moment so I don't think she will be overjoyed if I suggest clambering over a number of boats.

Might be wise to leave it a month and then try!! There doesn't appear to be a rush as boats aren't selling that quick at the moment. That is the downside to taking a "punt" on a boat as selling it on if it wasn't the right one might take ages - it is better I think to take some time over it!!