Should Marinas Be More Accountable to Berth Holders

[LionsDen]

Just a few of the most recent examples of incidents involving visiting sail boats hitting berth holders boats posted on the forum as below.

As such it would be good to know what your home berth marina is doing to protect your investment and how we as a forum and the YBW as a whole can put pressure on all marinas to ensure our boats are adequately protected from third party damage.


Spent Hours polishing the bloody thing... before it went back in a couple of weeks ago, and some barsteward has clumped it in the marina and cleared off.
And, no, no-one saw anything.

We watched a boat come in to a berth near us the other day, he hit the boat next to him pretty hard and then scraped his way along it, the graunching noise was horrible! Once berthed one of the offending boats crew shouted to the skipper 'any damage'? 'No' was the answer as he peered over to the boat he hit. Off the skipper went downstairs only to return 30 seconds later with a bottle of fiberglass polish. 10 mins or so, and lots of polishing later, his boat (not so for the boat he hit) was Spick and span and he retired back to his cockpit for a well-deserved glass of wine.

I told the marina staff (because I would like to think someone would have done the same had it been my boat that was hit) who got the guy to own up even though he flatly denied it to start with.


n.b. East Cowes Berth Holders have got so fed up with visitors mooring in there space and damaging there boats without most of the time owning up, that the marina now insists that all visitors can only berth in this area +/- 1 hour of slack tide then they must be competent and no sailing schools are allowed in this area :encouragement:
Be good to see Haslar Marina do the same also as numerous boats have been damaged over the last year
Having said that the marina staff are a great bunch and always make you fee very welcome and at home :encouragement:

n.b. Whilst in CYH over the weekend I noted and very much appreciated that both Ben and his team was actively out in the marina and managing the berths both via tenders and on the pontoon.
The marina was totally full and incident free :encouragement:
10/10 to Ben and his team for using there initiative and being 100% efficient and professional and going beyond the call of duty to ensure that both berth holders and visitors boats have the risk of any accidental damage mitigated.

 

[LionsDen]

As an initial thought would a petition of resident berth-holders presented to there marina have any clout

 

[rafiki_]

A stream of us from Portishead visited Penarth last weekend. Stuart, the Marina Manager checked us all in. This does not happen at a Portishead.

 

[LionsDen]

A stream of us from Portishead visited Penarth last weekend. Stuart, the Marina Manager checked us all in. This does not happen at a Portishead.

That's good news.

Just done some rough maths based on Haslar Marina having 600 Berths and each paying on average £5,000 I feel we would all not mind paying an additional 1% for the marina to employ two full time water based marina persons complete with tender to escort visitors to a berth during the busy summer season to protect our investments - This works out at only £1.00 a week add cost per berth holder - But surely the marina could provide this additional facility - benefit foc
I noticed this facility was carried out whilst visiting Salcombe - Fowey etc in the summer :encouragement:

 

[P4Paul]

That's good news.

Just done some rough maths based on Haslar Marina having 600 Berths and each paying on average £5,000 I feel we would all not mind paying an additional 1% for the marina to employ two full time water based marina persons complete with tender to escort visitors to a berth during the busy summer season to protect our investments - This works out at only £1.00 a week add cost per berth holder - But surely the marina could provide this additional facility - benefit foc
I noticed this facility was carried out whilst visiting Salcombe - Fowey etc in the summer :encouragement:

I would put the responsibility back onto the skipper in charge. last season in Yarmouth I radioed the harbourmaster to ask if they would come and stand by with their dory as I left the berth due to the gusting wind (as it happened we managed to find a gap in the gusts and had no need for them to step in). No doubt a number of people found my request a source of amusement but it was better than it going wrong, damaging someone's pride and joy and it all ending up on you-tube and a link being put on here...

 

[oGaryo]

I would put the responsibility back onto the skipper in charge. last season in Yarmouth I radioed the harbourmaster to ask if they would come and stand by with their dory as I left the berth due to the gusting wind (as it happened we managed to find a gap in the gusts and had no need for them to step in). No doubt a number of people found my request a source of amusement but it was better than it going wrong, damaging someone's pride and joy and it all ending up on you-tube and a link being put on here...

I'd agree with that Paul. Similar situation in East Cowes where the berth I'd been allocated was probably the worse berth to attempt to berth in given the strong wind and the direction of the tidal flow and wind. Two failed attempts and a ferry glide out of trouble down the fairway so I could turn the boat in a more open area of the marina and I called in to ask for a more accessible berth, which they duly obliged.

It did get me thinking though.. why put me in the most difficult berth when a more suitable berth was available? I do feel the marina has some responsibility in that regard, along with the skipper of course i.e. you can accept the berth and keep trying until you damage something or do as I did.

 

[LionsDen]

Understood but unfortunately I feel a lot of skippers are totally incompetent in berthing and due to our permanent neighbor being away for two months we have therefore put out 5 fenders + a ball fender on our visitor side which currently is a pile of sh.t with loads of gouges in the gel coat - I have told the marina staff if any damage happens to Lions Den then they are deemed accountable as this is also by the looks of it a poorly kept charter yacht.
Every-time I come to the boat I now always have a quick cursory look around for 2 minutes which should not be necessary imho :ambivalence:

 

[l'escargot]

I think the idea that it is only visiting sailing boats that cause damage is flawed to begin with - I've certainly seen both sail and motor get it wrong and I've known of damage caused by resident boats and motorboats.

If people can't manoeuvre in confined spaces or with a bit of tide then perhaps they should avoid marinas until they can or always ask for an "easy" berth if they aren't competent - I can't see how marina staff can assess the competence of arriving skippers when allocating berths.

I don't know if schools are the problem either, not forgetting there are motorboat schools out there too that practice around marinas. I've probably seen more cock ups by private owners than schools generally - at least schools always have at least one competent person on board who can take control which isn't always the case on a private boat.

I don't see that a escorting dory will cure the problem if indeed one exists on any grand scale. Perhaps we need to insist that visiting boats take on a pilot or we have an arrival pontoon with valet parking?

Anyway, isn't it why we have insurance and judging by the premiums, insurance companies don't seem to think there is an increasing problem? Well not for my sailing boat anyway.

 

[z1ppy]

Understood but unfortunately I feel a lot of skippers are totally incompetent in berthing and due to our permanent neighbor being away for two months we have therefore put out 5 fenders + a ball fender on our visitor side which currently is a pile of sh.t with loads of gouges in the gel coat - I have told the marina staff if any damage happens to Lions Den then they are deemed accountable as this is also by the looks of it a poorly kept charter yacht.
Every-time I come to the boat I now always have a quick cursory look around for 2 minutes which should not be necessary imho :ambivalence:

really??? how does that work then.. how can you try and hold a marina responsible for the actions of another boat skipper..

You said it yourself with the first line. some people are not only poor boat handlers (and we all know we can all fall into that category some times!) but some also have no moral compass to do the right thing when they get it wrong!

 

[lisilou]

I have to say our marina, Swanwick, couldn't be more helpful when it comes to our little incident a few weeks ago. I'm sure they're not obliged to but nevertheless, they are dealing with it so I'm very grateful to them right now and hopefully it'll all be sorted and fixed in due course.
L

 

[kcrane]

I just replied to another thread to say on the whole marinas in my experience have been pretty good, example a couple of weeks ago when I rang Darthaven for a space and they said they were full, bar one space that was at the end of a run and tricky to get into, then he took the time to explain where it was. I knew the space and was happy to take it. But when you just get "D54, starboard side to" it is a worry you will go down a tight alley, only to find the pontoon too short to get off and now you have restricted room, a breeze up your bum and a cross tide (Gosport springs to mind). Salcombe is no problem on the moorings, they help you get on and there is loads of room, relatively speaking. The pontoons in the Bag are a different story with a strong current running.

It must be a tricky one for marinas, just how do they tell how capable a skipper is? I guess the damage caused is more inconvenience and annoyance than expensive, else we would see it in our premiums as Mr Snail of IoW says.

 

[U4]

Just a few of the most recent examples of incidents involving visiting sail boats hitting berth holders boats posted on the forum as below.

Just to point out - I never mentioned the type of boat, sail or power, that was involved in the incident that I witnessed!!

 

[RogerRat]

It must be a tricky one for marinas, just how do they tell how capable a skipper is? I guess the damage caused is more inconvenience and annoyance than expensive, else we would see it in our premiums as Mr Snail of IoW says.

I have to agree, a marina caanot be held responsible for a skipper's actions or competence, even the best of us get it wrong sometimes but it ends in a bump less often when you know your boat or as Kevin said if they they tell you the whole picture, up or downstream side and which side to when bows in.

In the case of the marinas like East Cowes and Swanwick that are likely to get lots of visitors and also have strong currents in springs, you might be able to ask for better camera coverage on the most prone berths. I doubt if this is something you can insist on but a polite request is reasonable.

I would say though, that getting a petition up on the forum or trying create a resident berth holders association will get you absolutely nowhere. Marina managers' and harbour masters everywhere have residents that can be more trouble than they're worth. A few years ago, I was told by Hamble river harbour staff that one or two of them, "Seem to spend every waking hour trying to tell them how to to their jobs". The obvious result is that they just ignore these odd few punters as they are known as, 'bloody nuisances'.

I would suggest that you pick your battles as said above, these bumps, while annoying are 'more inconvenience and annoyance than expensive'.

Good luck tho' :encouragement:

RR

 

[ricky_s]

n.b. East Cowes Berth Holders have got so fed up with visitors mooring in there space and damaging there boats without most of the time owning up, that the marina now insists that all visitors can only berth in this area +/- 1 hour of slack tide then they must be competent and no sailing schools are allowed in this area :encouragement:

Really? They didn't mention that when I visited on Saturday though we did tell them we were a mobo.

Thought it interesting that they were rafting the sailboats but gave us a berth deep in the marina away from the visitor berths?

 

[wipe_out]

Had an incident a few weeks back.. We were tied up alongside a pontoon with another boat in front of us.. The training school rib with about 4 students and an instructor was doing it's thing in and around the pontoons and fingers.. One of the students obviously had a panic when they came a bit close to our boat so grabbed a handful of throttle not realising that the back of the rib would swing *closer* to the object they were trying to get away from.. The net result is the rib clobbered our boat and then bounced off the boat in front of us as well.. The instructor then managed to rip the kill cord out to stop any more drama.. I came up just as they were bouncing off the boat in front.. The instructor waved what I assume was his apology, started the engine again and went off somewhere else.. He didn't stop to have a look and see if there was any damage.. I leaned over and could see there were some scuff marks from the rib but it doesn't look like anything penetrated the gel coat..

Anyway, I went and reported it to the office in case the other boat had any damage..

I don't think the marina should be held responsible, it's the responsibility of the person at the helm.. I do think they should own up though and anyone seeing anything should report it in case they don't.. A little like a neighbourhood watch scheme..

 

[l'escargot]

Really? They didn't mention that when I visited on Saturday though we did tell them we were a mobo.

Thought it interesting that they were rafting the sailboats but gave us a berth deep in the marina away from the visitor berths?

I haven't heard any such ruling and I berth there. I'll have to ask in the office - where interestingly most if not all staff are Raggies I believe. Perhaps they were berthing the motorboats separately because they didn't want them to hit the sailing boats already tied up

 

[ricky_s]

I haven't heard any such ruling and I berth there. I'll have to ask in the office - where interestingly most if not all staff are Raggies I believe. Perhaps they were berthing the motorboats separately because they didn't want them to hit the sailing boats already tied up

That may well be true!

 

[nicho]

The berthing staff at Yarmouth (IOW), will always assist in difficult conditions. I have asked for them to stand by on a couple of difficult occasions, and once had a gentle nudge from their dory to help leave a berth - they are very well fendered!!.

 

[Switch]

I visited East Cowes last week and was given a berth in the 'resident' berth holders part of the marina rather than the visitors area. I was politely asked that as I was berthing in the residents area that I ensured that I was 'well fendered' to protect neighbouring boats. I remember thinking at the time that they must be responding to complaints about visiting boats.

 

[blackdogsailing]

No doubt a number of people found my request a source of amusement but it was better than it going wrong, damaging someone's pride and joy and it all ending up on you-tube and a link being put on here...

I'm a raggie and I regard myself as pretty reasonable at docking but I would never, ever, criticise or find it amusing if someone was asking for help. I have had assistance from the harbourmasters dorys at yarmouth on 2 occassions when conditions were somewhat tricky.
Chris