Should I re-rig my kicker?

[eddystone]

Sorry attached photo is only one I have to hand but my relatively weak kicker has a very long wire strop and and a short length of rope between the two blocks; I don't know why it is like that but it's what I inherited with the boat over 6 years ago.

I may have a very shaky grasp of mechanics but seems intuitive to me that a much shorter wire strop and longer run of rope between the blocks would be better. I ask because I suspect the boatyard I'm now in will have facilities for splicing wire.

 

[Pye_End]

To some extent the wire strop length is irrelevant, so long as it leaves enough space for the purchase though blocks (or a lever) at the end. If you need more poke, then add more blocks.

 

[eddystone]

To some extent the wire strop length is irrelevant, so long as it leaves enough space for the purchase though blocks (or a lever) at the end. If you need more poke, then add more blocks.

Well did say have shaky grasp of mechanics - so basically the length of rope between the blocks is only relevant to the extent that it goes block to block too "early" - getting more purchase would need a cascade? I've not seen this on yachts but obviously dinghies have cascade with lots of blocks but then they need it.

 

[Bav32]

As Pye end says, the more blocks (or purchases) the merrier.
A lot depends on the size of the mainsail and details of yacht type would help,.
Take a look at what others have done with similar yachts.
AND do yourself a favour and bring it back to the cockpit and make it double ended so that can adjust from the convenience of the uphill side of the boat.
It only requires a few more metres of rope to do this, but well worth it.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

Sorry attached photo is only one I have to hand but my relatively weak kicker has a very long wire strop and and a short length of rope between the two blocks; I don't know why it is like that but it's what I inherited with the boat over 6 years ago.

I may have a very shaky grasp of mechanics but seems intuitive to me that a much shorter wire strop and longer run of rope between the blocks would be better. I ask because I suspect the boatyard I'm now in will have facilities for splicing wire.

You can replace the wire strop with a cascade. There was a good magasine article a year or three ago on this subject, probably in PBO. Someone will be along soon with info on this.

 

[lw395]

Looking at the picture, the boom looks relatively small section, compared to the mast?
So it may not really be intended for use with a powerful kicker.
Many yachts have weak kickers, control of leach tension is by mainsheet and traveller, the kicker is really just to limit twist when the sheet is well eased.

 

[eddystone]

Looking at the picture, the boom looks relatively small section, compared to the mast?
So it may not really be intended for use with a powerful kicker.
Many yachts have weak kickers, control of leach tension is by mainsheet and traveller, the kicker is really just to limit twist when the sheet is well eased.

You are right the mainsail on the Sadler 32 is only about 200 sq.ft. and as it's quite high aspect the boom is short. (probably why it only has room for 2 leech lines and outhaul). To date I have considered the mainsheet and the (long) traveller as the most important controls but the more one lets the boom out the more the kicker comes into play - close hauled it doesn't really do very much, whereas in a dinghy the kicker is capable of exerting significant bend on the mast.
It is led back to the cockpit but given above I'm not sure I would bother twinning it.

Thank you I think I have my answer.

 

[ithet]

You could double the purchase by extending the strop so that it goes around a block on the boom and down to a fixed point at the base of the mast. Probably easiest to do use Dynema these days.

 

[Quandary]

You could double the purchase by extending the strop so that it goes around a block on the boom and down to a fixed point at the base of the mast. Probably easiest to do use Dynema these days.

Why? Dyneema is harder to grip, slips in clutches, much more expensive and a bit more difficult to splice, a nice thickish piece of braid will not stretch enough to justify Dyneema in this application. Our moody has a 2-1 wire purchase tensioned by an 8-1 tackle in 8mm dyneema, massive overkill for a boat we never race. The skinny and hard dyneema tail is hard to grasp so serious adjustment involves a winch.

 

[Daydream believer]

Why? Dyneema is harder to grip, slips in clutches, much more expensive and a bit more difficult to splice, a nice thickish piece of braid will not stretch enough to justify Dyneema in this application. Our moody has a 2-1 wire purchase tensioned by an 8-1 tackle in 8mm dyneema, massive overkill for a boat we never race. The skinny and hard dyneema tail is hard to grasp so serious adjustment involves a winch.

Mine is a dynema cascade finished off with a normal 6mm line on a 2:1 block as the final load is quite light & can be cleated easily enough.
The OP mentioned wire & I would suggest that is not worth the hassle as one can make up dynema cascades oneself very easily, using friction rings.
All detailed on you tube.
Make up some patterns with string to get the lengths right first.

 

[ithet]

What I suggested was just a new strop going round a single block on the boom and then to the existing tackle. No cascade, clutches, jammers or handling required for this part. But low stretch required. I suggested Dynema as alternative to wire, only a metre or so required.

 

[William_H]

I think O_P kicker might be like mine. Pretty ineffectual because the space between the mast base and gooseneck is small thus the kicker can not have a lot of power. if it is at 45 degrees to the boom then half of the kicker (vang) power is lost trying to pull the boom into the mast. Unlike a dinghy where vang often goes right down to the keel. So as said at best the OP kicker can just help hold the boom down when running with main sheet very loose. Hence on my boat the vang is no more than a preventer to stop the boom rising. I wonder if a strop with no adjustment would work just as well. Perhaps not, but the tackle does not get adjusted often and a lot of purchase is of no use. 4 to one at the moment. ol'will

 

[eddystone]

I think O_P kicker might be like mine. UhPretty ineffectual because the space between the mast base and gooseneck is small thus the kicker can not have a lot of power. if it is at 45 degrees to the boom then half of the kicker (vang) power is lost trying to pull the boom into the mast. Unlike a dinghy where vang often goes right down to the keel. So as said at best the OP kicker can just help hold the boom down when running with main sheet very loose. Hence on my boat the vang is no more than a preventer to stop the boom rising. I wonder if a strop with no adjustment would work just as well. Perhaps not, but the tackle does not get adjusted often and a lot of purchase is of no use. 4 to one at the moment. ol'will

Think I agree with all that - leaning towards doing nothing anyway was much lower priority than replacing reefing lines to reduce friction.

 

[johnalison]

Think I agree with all that - leaning towards doing nothing anyway was much lower priority than replacing reefing lines to reduce friction.

I don't think there is any need to give up yet if you find it awkward. Having more power may well make things easier in the cockpit, espicially for weak crew, though at the cost of a longer tail to stow. You can't possibly do any damage with the extra force, which will be nothing compared to the snatch loads on the kicker when sailing, which will be the same however it is rigged.

 

[PetiteFleur]

I fitted a cascade system to my boat - really powerful - just one pull on the rope through a jammer and it's tight. I don't race so don't bother with continual adjustments.

 

[yoda]

Sorry attached photo is only one I have to hand but my relatively weak kicker has a very long wire strop and and a short length of rope between the two blocks; I don't know why it is like that but it's what I inherited with the boat over 6 years ago.

I may have a very shaky grasp of mechanics but seems intuitive to me that a much shorter wire strop and longer run of rope between the blocks would be better. I ask because I suspect the boatyard I'm now in will have facilities for splicing wire.

Difficult to see from the picture but the point of attachment on the boom seems very close to the gooseneck, can it be moved out along the boom to help increase the pull? I would agree that a simple cascade by taking the strop round one block on the boom and back to the base of the mast would also double the purchase. A combination of the 2 would definitely help. If the boat is a Sadler 32 then check out with other owners how they have theirs.

Yoda