Ludd
Well-Known Member
As long as your diplaying the correct ensign it'll be alright--
Should I hoist my motoring cone when motorsailing...
- Thread starter snooks
- Start date
As long as your diplaying the correct ensign it'll be alright--
Searush
Well-Known Member
As I don't have Radar or AIS I rely on my ears & brain in fog. The key issue isn't ColRegs, it's just keeping out of the godamn way. OK, one doesn't want to act in an unexpected manner, but if you ain't been seen, it doesn't matter which way you turn as long as you get clear out of the other guys' path.
The ColRegs niceties only arise when you have both seen each other & to prevent an unexpected turn into danger. So, in fog, minimise noise, maximise listening. Identify direction of any threatening noises (very difficult in practice) & keep well out of the way.
The ColRegs niceties only arise when you have both seen each other & to prevent an unexpected turn into danger. So, in fog, minimise noise, maximise listening. Identify direction of any threatening noises (very difficult in practice) & keep well out of the way.
snooks
Well-Known Member
At the time I didn't have radar, I did have AIS "radar" which was checked every 3-5 mins, what else is there to do between that time? And what harm can it do?
There were only two of us on board (and the autopilot). And anything to break up the monotony of the trip was welcomed
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
I agree with every word of that, but none of it has anything to do with making the correct sound signal.
Who would you be signalling to? Other yachts and small vessels? How does that help? Saves you from a broken stanchion or two. What really matters is the big stuff and the small but fast stuff, and I still maintain you can't be sure that big vessels or fast vessels can hear your sound signals.
Personally, I really rate AIS and radar in Fog.
goldchip
New Member
My radio works like this, the horn acts as a microphone in between sounding the fog signal. Great bit of kit. Best to have radar aswell.The last large container ship I went on had microphones outside facing all directions outside the enclosed bridge for just this reason
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
I'm not anti making sound signals, I'm merely countering your contention that fog signals don't belong in the century before last.
They're pretty much useless. That fact you already had AIS and chose to invest a significant chunk of cash in Radar suggests that in the real world you have very little faith in sound signals yourself.
Again I suspect if you had any real faith that a large or fast powered vessel would hear your sound signals you wouldn't be offering those two weak reasons for making sound signals.
LadyInBed
Well-Known Member
Quite agree, but without Radar or AIS how do you know what to keep out of the way of?
As you say, 'very difficult in practice', pinpointing direction is almost impossible!
'minimise noise' - so, engine off! That means relying on wind direction and speed to tack in the correct? direction before (presumably) you put your engine on to get a shimmy on.
Sorry, I think you are wrong. The price of AIS now makes it easily affordable, I am assuming that you have a chart plotter, but even without, getting SOG, COG and closest point of what ever it is called has got to be a must.
OK, so it might be another sailing boat that is crossing your path, so no AIS indicator, lets hope that he has radar as you relying on your 'maximised listening ability' just isn't going to cut it.
snooks
Well-Known Member
Put it this way then....What else can you do to make your presence known when you are out there when you don't have a radar, seemee or an AIS transmitter?
It's a last resort, yes, but when you don't have any other options it's better than doing nothing, is it not?
Lets face it no one goes out in fog, and no one I know would like to be in fog, gimme a F8 any day
If there is a chance that making fog signals will alert another vessel to my presence, then I'll make sound signals.
As soon as I hear anything, I'll make sound signals.
Out dated they might be, but they'll always have a place on any boat I'm the skipper of.
Ludd
Well-Known Member
Seconded.
peterb
Well-Known Member
I thought about getting a car-type air-horn, run off the boat's 12V supply. Mount it and the pump on a piece of board, with a lead running to one of our lighter type sockets. We'd only need to have it out when it gets foggy. Then I read COLREGS, Annex III, and realised that it suggests using a wide range of frequencies, in the hope that one of them might get through. Then I realised that at no point does it require that the frequency be constant.
So I thought that if I were to get one of those multi-tone type horns, the ones that play Dixie type tunes, not only would it have a better chance of being heard but anhyone hearing it would think "That's a car! Hang on, you don't get cars at sea, it must be ashore!" and would immediately turn away to avoid running aground. Now just maybe it might actually work!
So I thought that if I were to get one of those multi-tone type horns, the ones that play Dixie type tunes, not only would it have a better chance of being heard but anhyone hearing it would think "That's a car! Hang on, you don't get cars at sea, it must be ashore!" and would immediately turn away to avoid running aground. Now just maybe it might actually work!
TheBoatman
Well-Known Member
I have to say this?
Snooks
In yer piccy there doesn't seem to be enough wind to blow a match out ~ so why the hell have you got your main up?
No jib ~ no motor sailing cone ~ reduced helmsman vis and you're plodding around in the middle of a shipping lane with the main up?
I bet you were also flying the correct flags (even thou' they couldn't be seen)?
My above comments should be viewed as a definate BIG wink, wink, smile, because that's exactly what I would do ~ stooge around in the fog with various sails up or down, as the case maybe, displaying all kinds of flags and cones, making various sound signals when I remembered the relevant colreg.
My type of person!
Peter.
Not when I'm in fog they don't.
OK blowing a horn into the fog might not seem effective at the time, but if you don't do it, what's helping the other yachtsman out there without a radar knowing you are out there?
I've heard a big container ship make sound signals as I was crossing the channel in fog, and it was reassuring to know it was passing ahead of me.
Snooks
In yer piccy there doesn't seem to be enough wind to blow a match out ~ so why the hell have you got your main up?
No jib ~ no motor sailing cone ~ reduced helmsman vis and you're plodding around in the middle of a shipping lane with the main up?
I bet you were also flying the correct flags (even thou' they couldn't be seen)?
My above comments should be viewed as a definate BIG wink, wink, smile, because that's exactly what I would do ~ stooge around in the fog with various sails up or down, as the case maybe, displaying all kinds of flags and cones, making various sound signals when I remembered the relevant colreg.
My type of person!
Peter.
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
The case you're trying to counter is that sound signals are grossly ineffective and out of date.
To win that you have to convince people that sound signals are *better* than radar, seemee or AIS. Not merely a harmless thing to do that might help if you're lucky.
What you're saying is a bit like saying 'travelling by horse is an effective way to travel to Newcastle', and then justifying that by saying if all the better alternatives weren't available it would be.
Nobody has said sound signals should not be made. What people *are* doing is questioning their effectiveness.
TamarMike
Well-Known Member
As regards the original question is it responsible to motorsail in fog? Having sails up is likely to restrict your ability to manoeuvre , stop or reverse, unless there is no breeze at all in which case what is the point unless you boat has dark coloured sails which might make it more visible through the murk.
I have been in thick fog a few times but always inshore or well up the river when navigation and soundings tend to take priority over fog signals, I do however get the fog horn out and the just sight of now sets the dogs off barking, and they are louder than my brass trumpet!
I have been in thick fog a few times but always inshore or well up the river when navigation and soundings tend to take priority over fog signals, I do however get the fog horn out and the just sight of now sets the dogs off barking, and they are louder than my brass trumpet!
Doug_Stormforce
Well-Known Member
"1 long, 2 short" is a fog signal (sailing, NUC, RAM, fishing, towing) but not that of a power vessel.
As a power vessel you make one long blast when making way or 2 long blasts if stopped (underway). Blast are 2 secs apart
As far as the original question goes, the answer is yes. Day-shapes should be used by day regardless of visibility. From memory rule 20 (I think) makes reference to lights and shapes being used in all weathers.
Woodlouse
Well-Known Member
Unless you are transmitting an AIS signal then sound signals are the only way of defining what you are to another vessel, which then defines the avoiding action necessary. Big ships still use sound signals. If you've ever been in Cowes on a foggy morning you can hear them going off all over the place, and as ships are serious about sounding their horns, you can bet that they're pretty serious about listening for others as well, just as Snooks mentioned with the directional microphones around the bridge.
Basically, Radar and AIS are invaluable in fog. But they only tell you where the other boats and ships are in relation to you, they don't mean that another vessel knows that you are out there. As when in fog people are straining their ears for the faint sound of an engine, I think there is quite a high likelihood of even a little gas can horn being heard.
So, in all sound signals still have their place in my opinion.
Ooh, and as for the Condor, I wouldn't worry about that in restricted vis, they have multiple radars, directional microphones, infrared cameras and AIS all straining to pick up the smallest hint of another boat, if anything is going to see you in fog, they will.
snooks
Well-Known Member
The Condor Express saw us (at least I think they saw "us"), and took avoiding action when they were a mile away (which was getting a little too close for comfort)
When you have one of those coming up from behind at 35 knots, aiming for you, it tends to focus the mind.
And when the vis was down to 50-100m you wonder what sort of view you would get, just before they hit you.
That wasn't a pleasant few minutes
fergie_mac66
Well-Known Member
xmas bells
Perhaps at Christmas we could use a bell as a sound signal !
Perhaps at Christmas we could use a bell as a sound signal !
Major Catastrophe
Well-Known Member
Perhaps at Christmas we could use a bell as a sound signal !
The colregs Gestapo are going to sleigh you for saying that.
Leighb
Well-Known Member
Perhaps at Christmas we could use a bell as a sound signal !
I think that could cause real confusion, doesn't it mean you are aground??
alan_d
Well-Known Member
No, no they do have a point (at the bottom). You are thinking of a truncated cone.
