should I BEWARE ??

[warrior40]

I have had my boat advertised on the internet and have recently been in correspondence with someone who appears to want to buy it seemingly without seeing it. He has been asking for my bank details and address so that he can 'raise a cheque from his creditor' . His English does not sem too great, so I assume he is contacting me from abroad. He has my phone no and does not call.
What do you make of this? It sounds a bit dodgy to me . The boat is worth quite a lot, not just couple of grand and he seems willing to pay the full price!

I am sure you will all have something to say about this, and I'll be interested to hear what you think of it!

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[Sybarite]

Not all foreigners are dishonest. Normal prudence applies.


John

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[Martin_Billings]

Might be ok. Might be a nigerian scam variant. What about asking for a bank draft?

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[Tiger Rag]

The legend lives on!

So it's true, I've heard all these bar stories from other brokers telling of how their client "didn't even want to look at it, paid the asking price and 10% no questions asked". Seriously, if your yacht is a well known make and model and is advertised at a realistic price, it could be your lucky day, must say though I agree about asking for a bank draft rather than transfer just to be sure, although I can't think of what scam it could be.

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[warrior40]

Re: The legend lives on!

Maybe I shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth then, but just seems a little unusual! ( I was not suggesting, by the way, that all foreigners are dishonest!)

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[Roberto]

Re: The legend lives on!

Money has got a colour: "Raise a check from its creditors", what if his creditor is say M.Cartel Medellin, based in Cali, colombia? You get paid from him, fresh money in your account, then they sell back the boat to someone else, maybe with a 30% discount for a quick sale.

Just to say it is better to investigate, and ask your bank to investigate on their side too.
No need of a laundrette to wash money..

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[zefender]

Bargepoles come to mind.

Why mention creditors? I'd be very, very careful. If he's entirely legit, he would understand your cautious response.

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[summerwind]

Re: The legend lives on!

Sorry but I can't agree. You should NEVER, NEVER, NEVER give your bank co-ordinates to a person you don't know. OK, the guy might want to the buy the boat. OK, maybe he doesn't need to worry about the price, but all the wealthy people I have ever come across WERE worried. They wouldn't stay wealthy for very long else.

Talk to your bank manager. He will need to know that the money is coming and where from for reasons of money laundering regulations. If he isn't aware of funds arriving, he will (should) refuse acceptance. He will be able to advise you how you may receive the funds without disclosing your account details.

Just another dollop of cold water for you: One of the most infamous money laundering scams involved the purchase of a boat. Yes, the owner lost his boat. No he didn't get to keep the money!!!

But good luck. I hope your buyer is genuine.

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[Twister_Ken]

Identity theft

Apart from scams of the "Oi, where's my boat gone" variety there is also identity theft to worry about. This guy could probably end up knowing your name, address, bank account details. That, and balls, are about all he needs to open a credit card account in your name. Then the fun starts!

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[colvic]

Sold a weatherfax system to a Dutchman living in the UK on the same principal he'd deposit the money in the bank. I trusted him, money never arrived, drove 80 miles to go and see him at the address he gave me..not known there.

Just unlucky perhaps, but even on e-bay I now want full details.


Phil

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[pvb]

Don\'t you ever...

Don't you ever write a cheque to someone you don't know? All your bank details are on the cheque.

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[ColdFusion]

Sounds extremely dodgy. I'd stay well clear. Identity theft (as mentioned above) seems very likely. Ask for a bankers draft and contact details. If the buyer is genuine they will understand your concerns and be willing to provide information. If not, walk away.

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[sfh]

As for cleared funds prior to release of goods, if that is a cheque of any form clear it first, do not invoice the boat as this will give him title. when the funds have cleared let him collect your boat or his boat.

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[l'escargot]

You don't know where in the world he is (you say correspond - presumably e mail, otherwise you would know where), he won't call you on the telephone (it suggests he hasn't given you his phone number, as this would also tell you where he is), all he has to put on a cheque is your name (he doesn't need to know your banking arrangements) and you're asking us whether you should give him your boat?
If you go ahead, can I have your house and car?


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[Amphitrite]

Beware of this offer! There was an article in Yacht (Germanies leading magazine for yachting) No. 9 of this year on organized fraud with yachts. The pattern seems to fit what was offered to you: full prize payed (or even more), cash payment, buyer lives abroad and gives you only a phone or mobile number, you might be request to travel abroad to make the deal, buyer is not interested in details of the yacht in question. This are points that should make you suspicious!
There have been over 25 reported frauds of this kind in Germany, so be careful!

Holger

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[Guest]

i'll have the rest
DON'T entertain this one

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[Heckler]

did he mention also that his uncle

used to work in the petroleum ministry in nigeria? etc etc.
come on, there was a prog on the british labour broadcasting corporation a while back that followed something similar thru, they meet you in a hotel in london, get your confidence and then they always need some dosh to carry on.
stu

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[jac]

I happen to be a Bank Manager so may be able to shed some light on the matter.

A direct funds transfer into your account is the most secure way of receiving money into your account. A CHAPS or Foreign Transfer will be cleared funds in your account and will be totally secure. You can ask your bank if the funds are in and released and if they say yes you can hand the boat over.

If you accept a draft, especially a foreign one, you will have to wait for it to clear. In the case of one drawn on a foreign bank this could take 4-6 weeks IF NOT MORE to do on a collection basis. Would you as a buyer wait 4-6 weeks to collect your new boat from that dishonest seller?

If you are a good customer your bank may negotiate the draft for you. You get the funds in 3-4 days even though the draft has not "cleared". HOWEVER, if that draft comes back for any reason the bank will debit it from your account. If you have let the boat go you have lost it.

"AH but Drafts are as good as cash I hear you say"

Trueish if they are genuine drafts. But do you know what a draft looks like from your own bank? from another UK bank? from a foreign bank?

Even if it is a genuine draft has it been stolen? If its drawn on a UK bank you can try ringing the issueing branch on a number you find out yourself, then giving them the details and asking for confirmation they have issued it as is. Doesn't take much to change 1000 to 10000.

The simple rule is don't give the goods away until you 100% have the funds and your bank have confirmed they are in and cannot be returned by the other bank in any circumstances.

I can't see what fraud may be being perpetrated here as long as you ensure you get the money. I'm not sure what the legal position would be if you received money innocently from a criminal - maybe a lawyer would care to comment on fee free basis of course!

I agree Identity Theft may be an issue. That said, with just an Account Number and Sortcode there is little damage they can do. Your bank would be negligent in the extreme if it gave out information from anyone who asked for it and to pay funds away without ID would be most unlikely but obviously if they have your full name, address and fake a driving license, passport, signature they could cause difficulties.

To be completley safe though giving away account numbers and sortcodes should be avoided. If you are concerned about giving account no and sortcode away speak to your bank about opening an a/c just for this one transaction and then close it.

Do tell them where it is coming from and i'm sure they will do there best to help. In the end though you must use your own intuition. There is no completely safe, risk free way of getting money. Cash can be forged or lost on the way to the bank, A draft may be fraudulently issued, Direct Transfers pose a security risk. Trust your gut feel. If it seems wrong, it probably is wrong. Walk away.

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[freeman]

Yes. It is almost certainly a scam to EMPTY your bank account!

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[warrior40]

Thanks for all your thoughts! I would, of course, never let the boat go without 100% knowledge that I had the money. As I thought , it sounds a bit dodgy! I don't think I'll bother pursuing it, but I'll let you know what he says, I asked him for his full contact details.


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